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	<title>Comments on: Edgar Bronfman: Jewish peoplehood sounds racist</title>
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		<title>By: Marriage-and-Prenuptials &#187; Jewlicious » Blog Archive » Edgar Bronfman: Jewish peoplehood ...</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-955611</link>
		<dc:creator>Marriage-and-Prenuptials &#187; Jewlicious » Blog Archive » Edgar Bronfman: Jewish peoplehood ...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 03:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-955611</guid>
		<description>[...] Jewlicious » Blog Archive » Edgar Bronfman: Jewish peoplehood &#8230; Orthodox Council page on marriage and prenuptials - includes sample agreement. ck Says: January 19th, 2005 at 12:50 pm. T_M: Ya know, that whole Agunah issue is usually almost &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jewlicious » Blog Archive » Edgar Bronfman: Jewish peoplehood &#8230; Orthodox Council page on marriage and prenuptials &#8211; includes sample agreement. ck Says: January 19th, 2005 at 12:50 pm. T_M: Ya know, that whole Agunah issue is usually almost &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Marriage and Prenuptials &#187; Blog Archive &#187; EARNING IT; More Couples Are Taking No Chance on Love - New York ...</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-866830</link>
		<dc:creator>Marriage and Prenuptials &#187; Blog Archive &#187; EARNING IT; More Couples Are Taking No Chance on Love - New York ...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 01:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-866830</guid>
		<description>[...] Jewlicious » Blog Archive » Edgar Bronfman: Jewish peoplehood &#8230; Orthodox Council page on marriage and prenuptials - includes sample agreement. ck Says: January 19th, 2005 at 12:50 pm. T_M: Ya know, that whole Agunah issue is usually almost &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jewlicious » Blog Archive » Edgar Bronfman: Jewish peoplehood &#8230; Orthodox Council page on marriage and prenuptials &#8211; includes sample agreement. ck Says: January 19th, 2005 at 12:50 pm. T_M: Ya know, that whole Agunah issue is usually almost &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ariel Sokolovsky</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-107132</link>
		<dc:creator>Ariel Sokolovsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jun 2005 14:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-107132</guid>
		<description>see:  &lt;a href=&quot;http://whoisajew.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://whoisajew.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>see:  <a href="http://whoisajew.com" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://whoisajew.com'>whoisajew.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ephraim</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-72835</link>
		<dc:creator>Ephraim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-72835</guid>
		<description>Fuzz, I do not know why you think the color your skin will preclude your being accepted in an Orthodox community. My wife is a Japanese (or, should I say &quot;Jewpanese&quot;) convert and no one, I repeat &lt;i&gt;no one&lt;/i&gt;, in the Orthodox community has ever questioned the validity of her conversion or questioned the Jewishness of my children because of the color of their skin or the shape of their eyes. Both of my sons attended a yeshiva in Israel and they are both quite frum. My youngest will be going to yeshiva in Israel starting this coming September. I know a nuber of mixed couples in the Orthodox community and I have never heard anyone say anything negative against them.

The only Jews I have met who have had trouble accepting the idea that a half-Japanese person could be a Jew are the so-called secular &quot;cultural Jews&quot;, for whom being Jewish is a strictly racial or ethnic identity. My cousin, who married a Catholic and allowerd her to baptize his son, had the &lt;i&gt;chutzpah&lt;/i&gt; to tell me that he believed he was more Jewish thtn any convert. This is racism, plain and simple. Jews like him we don&#039;t need. But if you really want to be Jewish, we can use you.

Orthodox Jews believe in G-d and the Torah. So when they meet a convert who has been converted properly by rabbis they know are faithful to the Torah, no one questions it. If you want to explore Judaism further, please, please do not let unsubstantiated rumors of Orthodox bigotry or the fear that they will not accept you prevent you from looking into it.

God luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fuzz, I do not know why you think the color your skin will preclude your being accepted in an Orthodox community. My wife is a Japanese (or, should I say &#8220;Jewpanese&#8221;) convert and no one, I repeat <i>no one</i>, in the Orthodox community has ever questioned the validity of her conversion or questioned the Jewishness of my children because of the color of their skin or the shape of their eyes. Both of my sons attended a yeshiva in Israel and they are both quite frum. My youngest will be going to yeshiva in Israel starting this coming September. I know a nuber of mixed couples in the Orthodox community and I have never heard anyone say anything negative against them.</p>
<p>The only Jews I have met who have had trouble accepting the idea that a half-Japanese person could be a Jew are the so-called secular &#8220;cultural Jews&#8221;, for whom being Jewish is a strictly racial or ethnic identity. My cousin, who married a Catholic and allowerd her to baptize his son, had the <i>chutzpah</i> to tell me that he believed he was more Jewish thtn any convert. This is racism, plain and simple. Jews like him we don&#8217;t need. But if you really want to be Jewish, we can use you.</p>
<p>Orthodox Jews believe in G-d and the Torah. So when they meet a convert who has been converted properly by rabbis they know are faithful to the Torah, no one questions it. If you want to explore Judaism further, please, please do not let unsubstantiated rumors of Orthodox bigotry or the fear that they will not accept you prevent you from looking into it.</p>
<p>God luck.</p>
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		<title>By: TM</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-72814</link>
		<dc:creator>TM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-72814</guid>
		<description>Because the government represents all the people and not only a sliver of the society. Besides, we&#039;re not talking about &quot;rabbis&quot; but specifically about Orthodox rabbis who refuse to acknowledge conversions by any other rabbis. Isn&#039;t it the function of the government to protect all members of its society and not become a vessel to promote preferential treatment on behalf of one group over another?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because the government represents all the people and not only a sliver of the society. Besides, we&#8217;re not talking about &#8220;rabbis&#8221; but specifically about Orthodox rabbis who refuse to acknowledge conversions by any other rabbis. Isn&#8217;t it the function of the government to protect all members of its society and not become a vessel to promote preferential treatment on behalf of one group over another?</p>
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		<title>By: Jon E</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-72806</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-72806</guid>
		<description>T M  &quot;Consider that other rabbis are ursurping the authority of the PM and israeli governt on issues such as conversion&quot; 

hold on a second why should the israeli government have any authority over who is and who isn&#039;t jewish.   sorry T M but you&#039;ve got it backwards Jewdaism has existed for centuries and the Authority of conversion has always been rabinical 

so who is the usurper here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T M  &#8220;Consider that other rabbis are ursurping the authority of the PM and israeli governt on issues such as conversion&#8221; </p>
<p>hold on a second why should the israeli government have any authority over who is and who isn&#8217;t jewish.   sorry T M but you&#8217;ve got it backwards Jewdaism has existed for centuries and the Authority of conversion has always been rabinical </p>
<p>so who is the usurper here?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve F</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-53540</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Mar 2005 03:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-53540</guid>
		<description>Once upon a time, there was a survey which had a chart showing various levels of observance, from nothing through lighting candles on Shabbos to belonging to a Conservative Shul to sending your kids to various levels of education all the way to observant Orthodoxy, with day schools, yeshiva education yada yada yada.

Anyone know of anything like this? I think it would add a lot to the conversation here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once upon a time, there was a survey which had a chart showing various levels of observance, from nothing through lighting candles on Shabbos to belonging to a Conservative Shul to sending your kids to various levels of education all the way to observant Orthodoxy, with day schools, yeshiva education yada yada yada.</p>
<p>Anyone know of anything like this? I think it would add a lot to the conversation here.</p>
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		<title>By: ck</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-41193</link>
		<dc:creator>ck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-41193</guid>
		<description>LB: You need help. Seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LB: You need help. Seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: LB</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-40835</link>
		<dc:creator>LB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-40835</guid>
		<description>LB? I can live with that. I do not understand why my posts keep getting deleted. All I am promoting is the same thing that one of the big sponsors of birthright is promoting. You even have an article about it at http://www.jewlicious.com/index.php?p=218

So why the deletions? Don&#039;t you want to encourage jews to date and hook up with other jews. Feel the love! Now I am going to find a nice quiet, private spot and think about LB. Yessss. LB. Yum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LB? I can live with that. I do not understand why my posts keep getting deleted. All I am promoting is the same thing that one of the big sponsors of birthright is promoting. You even have an article about it at <a href="http://www.jewlicious.com/index.php?p=218" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.jewlicious.com/index.php?p=218'>jewlicious.com...</a></p>
<p>So why the deletions? Don&#8217;t you want to encourage jews to date and hook up with other jews. Feel the love! Now I am going to find a nice quiet, private spot and think about LB. Yessss. LB. Yum.</p>
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		<title>By: ck</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-40660</link>
		<dc:creator>ck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-40660</guid>
		<description>LB: Because you&#039;re an idiot. Keep your stupidity out of this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LB: Because you&#8217;re an idiot. Keep your stupidity out of this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: ck</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-40564</link>
		<dc:creator>ck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2005 05:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-40564</guid>
		<description>I have no problem benefiting from his largesse. After all I think we both have an interest in continuity and in that respect. Edgar Bronfman Sr., as well as other birthright donors, are decidedly secular in their approach, whereas I am less so. But birthright makes no preference either way.  Who the heck are you by the way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no problem benefiting from his largesse. After all I think we both have an interest in continuity and in that respect. Edgar Bronfman Sr., as well as other birthright donors, are decidedly secular in their approach, whereas I am less so. But birthright makes no preference either way.  Who the heck are you by the way?</p>
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		<title>By: the_x</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-40241</link>
		<dc:creator>the_x</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-40241</guid>
		<description>Hey wait a minute. Isn&#039;t Bronfman one of the guys funding birthright israel and hence your Jewlicious trip? How do you work that out? Being critical on one hand but accepting his largesse on the other? Who cares. Hanging out with ck is enough justification.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey wait a minute. Isn&#8217;t Bronfman one of the guys funding birthright israel and hence your Jewlicious trip? How do you work that out? Being critical on one hand but accepting his largesse on the other? Who cares. Hanging out with ck is enough justification.</p>
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		<title>By: ck</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-39141</link>
		<dc:creator>ck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-39141</guid>
		<description>Safiyyah: I just went through &lt;a href=&quot;http://safspace.blogspot.com/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;your blog&lt;/a&gt; and I am heartened by the fact that you, a devout Muslim struggling to find her place in a secular society, can find edification in our discussion. I mean it makes sense of course, many of the issues you are dealing with now are issues that the older, more established Jewish community hasstruggled with for a long time. Hopefully, you can learn from both our successes and our failures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Safiyyah: I just went through <a href="http://safspace.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">your blog</a> and I am heartened by the fact that you, a devout Muslim struggling to find her place in a secular society, can find edification in our discussion. I mean it makes sense of course, many of the issues you are dealing with now are issues that the older, more established Jewish community hasstruggled with for a long time. Hopefully, you can learn from both our successes and our failures.</p>
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		<title>By: Safiyyah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-39135</link>
		<dc:creator>Safiyyah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-39135</guid>
		<description>This is a very fascinating discussion, and it&#039;s wonderful to see it taking place on this public forum. I learned a lot just by going through the comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very fascinating discussion, and it&#8217;s wonderful to see it taking place on this public forum. I learned a lot just by going through the comments.</p>
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		<title>By: T_M</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-29712</link>
		<dc:creator>T_M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2005 07:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-29712</guid>
		<description>This was a conspiracy intended to put a ck post at the top of the most commented list. Don&#039;t think I didn&#039;t notice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was a conspiracy intended to put a ck post at the top of the most commented list. Don&#8217;t think I didn&#8217;t notice.</p>
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		<title>By: ck</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-29690</link>
		<dc:creator>ck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2005 06:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-29690</guid>
		<description>Good grief. I go catch a few Zzzs and this is what I wake up to?

I love all of God&#039;s creatures, the men and the women, the Jew and the gentile. There are no qualifiers here. That&#039;s my policy and you can quote me on that. 

I have no idea what or who set Anne off but please people ... show some love y&#039;all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good grief. I go catch a few Zzzs and this is what I wake up to?</p>
<p>I love all of God&#8217;s creatures, the men and the women, the Jew and the gentile. There are no qualifiers here. That&#8217;s my policy and you can quote me on that. </p>
<p>I have no idea what or who set Anne off but please people &#8230; show some love y&#8217;all!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-29685</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2005 06:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-29685</guid>
		<description>Tulane. If you come for Mardi Gras, I guarantee you, there will be innumerable rich, coked up fine young ladies so drunk that you can convince them to sleep with you by having in your possession even a small number of Mardi Gras beads.

I guess it&#039;s not prostitution if Mardi Gras beads are not technically legal tender.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tulane. If you come for Mardi Gras, I guarantee you, there will be innumerable rich, coked up fine young ladies so drunk that you can convince them to sleep with you by having in your possession even a small number of Mardi Gras beads.</p>
<p>I guess it&#8217;s not prostitution if Mardi Gras beads are not technically legal tender.</p>
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		<title>By: Grandmuffti</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-29630</link>
		<dc:creator>Grandmuffti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2005 04:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-29630</guid>
		<description>Muffti would like to know where Michael goes to school and if he can introduce Muffti to the rich, coked up, tattooed &lt;strike&gt;sluts&lt;/strike&gt; fine young ladies? ck keeps telling me to date jewish women...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Muffti would like to know where Michael goes to school and if he can introduce Muffti to the rich, coked up, tattooed <strike>sluts</strike> fine young ladies? ck keeps telling me to date jewish women&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: T_M</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-29604</link>
		<dc:creator>T_M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2005 03:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-29604</guid>
		<description>Michael, I promise.



Um, unless I&#039;m mistaken, you mentioned some Jewish girls who need to have some tattoos removed? Oh ck, we have a mission for Jewlicious. Finally!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, I promise.</p>
<p>Um, unless I&#8217;m mistaken, you mentioned some Jewish girls who need to have some tattoos removed? Oh ck, we have a mission for Jewlicious. Finally!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/10/edgar-bronfman-jewish-peoplehood-sounds-racist/#comment-29593</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2005 02:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-29593</guid>
		<description>Now, to be perfectly fair, if we were to marry our shiksas, our self-loathing children wouldn&#039;t be Jews.

And such contempt for goyim. I mean, hey, some of my best friends are shiksas. I swear, some of them have things on their mind other than getting in the pants of Jewish boys to wreak destruction upon the Jewish people. Some of them.

Seriously, though, I have never heard T_M express anything but ahavat neshei Yisrael. And on another note, as long as we&#039;re talking about the thinning out of the Jewish people, why place blame squarely on the men who marry out? I go to a university (with a roughly 30% Jewish population) where if I had a nickel for every Jewish girl in a sorority, on cocaine, with a rich daddy, tattoo above her ass and different boy in her bed every night, I could probably turn the Negev green with Tu B&#039;Shevat tree-planting donations to the JNF. Sure, &lt;i&gt;their&lt;/i&gt; children will technically be Jewish, but only by default.

Obviously, there are gaping flaws in American Jewry, and there is no easy place to lay the blame or find an answer. Of course I want to marry a nice Jewish girl and have a million nice Jewish babies, none of whom will be self-loathing, inshaallah. And so do a lot of other nice Jewish boys I know. Don&#039;t get mad at ck or T_M, who as far as I know are also firmly committed to the concept of Jewish girls and Jewish babies, and to being happy with said Jewish girls at the same time. Don&#039;t fight the people who agree with you.

And T_M, please don&#039;t stop making fun of non-Jewish trophy wives. For all our sakes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, to be perfectly fair, if we were to marry our shiksas, our self-loathing children wouldn&#8217;t be Jews.</p>
<p>And such contempt for goyim. I mean, hey, some of my best friends are shiksas. I swear, some of them have things on their mind other than getting in the pants of Jewish boys to wreak destruction upon the Jewish people. Some of them.</p>
<p>Seriously, though, I have never heard T_M express anything but ahavat neshei Yisrael. And on another note, as long as we&#8217;re talking about the thinning out of the Jewish people, why place blame squarely on the men who marry out? I go to a university (with a roughly 30% Jewish population) where if I had a nickel for every Jewish girl in a sorority, on cocaine, with a rich daddy, tattoo above her ass and different boy in her bed every night, I could probably turn the Negev green with Tu B&#8217;Shevat tree-planting donations to the JNF. Sure, <i>their</i> children will technically be Jewish, but only by default.</p>
<p>Obviously, there are gaping flaws in American Jewry, and there is no easy place to lay the blame or find an answer. Of course I want to marry a nice Jewish girl and have a million nice Jewish babies, none of whom will be self-loathing, inshaallah. And so do a lot of other nice Jewish boys I know. Don&#8217;t get mad at ck or T_M, who as far as I know are also firmly committed to the concept of Jewish girls and Jewish babies, and to being happy with said Jewish girls at the same time. Don&#8217;t fight the people who agree with you.</p>
<p>And T_M, please don&#8217;t stop making fun of non-Jewish trophy wives. For all our sakes.</p>
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