Comments on: Down with Hanukah! http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/ It's a Jewish Blog! Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:17:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: kinda jew http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-1595596 kinda jew Wed, 01 Dec 2010 17:08:09 +0000 /?p=510#comment-1595596 i totally agree that Hanuka is an absurd holiday. i do not feel need to apologize for the Maccabees deeds , they fought for keeping Judaism from extinction, in this matter you some time in order to free and liberal you have to use severe means , however the fundamental freedom fighters pretty soon became the dictators and by matityahu grandson the royal family took Greek names. so were celebrating(and for almost two thousand years not just recent time) the miracle of some oil can. so we no for some time to use the desired context. nothing new under the sun. i totally agree that Hanuka is an absurd holiday.
i do not feel need to apologize for the Maccabees deeds , they fought for keeping Judaism from extinction, in this matter you some time in order to free and liberal you have to use severe means , however the fundamental freedom fighters pretty soon became the dictators and by matityahu grandson the royal family took Greek names. so were celebrating(and for almost two thousand years not just recent time) the miracle of some oil can. so we no for some time to use the desired context. nothing new under the sun.

]]> By: Jewlicious » Hanukkah with Birthright Israel and ROI120 http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-1125255 Jewlicious » Hanukkah with Birthright Israel and ROI120 Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:02:48 +0000 /?p=510#comment-1125255 [...] it’s the festive season in the Jewish world. Hanukkah is coming and the Jews are bustin’ out the candles, the [...] [...] it’s the festive season in the Jewish world. Hanukkah is coming and the Jews are bustin’ out the candles, the [...]

]]> By: true Jew http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-12233 true Jew Wed, 15 Dec 2004 06:07:42 +0000 /?p=510#comment-12233 but if we lose our culture we lose who we truely are and as long as we keep our culture the religion is safe becaus the 2 are linked AND CAN NOT BE SEPERATED. the jews of spain would have wiped out if they didnt try to wipe them out. but if we lose our culture we lose who we truely are and as long as we keep our culture the religion is safe becaus the 2 are linked AND CAN NOT BE SEPERATED. the jews of spain would have wiped out if they didnt try to wipe them out.

]]> By: Dave Marshall http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-10396 Dave Marshall Fri, 10 Dec 2004 04:32:48 +0000 /?p=510#comment-10396 I think the problem is if Jewish base their identity on tribalistic/ nationalistic or cultural feelings, that will all fade away. We have participated in Hellenistic, Roman, eastern European, Byzantine, Turkish, Arabic, French, German, Spanish, Italian cultures, you name it- and what is left of all that, now that we're in the global Americano-European culture? Only faith, prayer and good actions stand the test of time. I think the problem is if Jewish base their identity on tribalistic/ nationalistic or cultural feelings, that will all fade away. We have participated in Hellenistic, Roman, eastern European, Byzantine, Turkish, Arabic, French, German, Spanish, Italian cultures, you name it- and what is left of all that, now that we’re in the global Americano-European culture? Only faith, prayer and good actions stand the test of time.

]]> By: true Jew http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-10157 true Jew Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:49:01 +0000 /?p=510#comment-10157 were ever we are exepted we blend in and fade away were ever we are exepted we blend in and fade away

]]> By: true Jew http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-10156 true Jew Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:46:22 +0000 /?p=510#comment-10156 thats true ms "without anti semitism jews would not exist" Albert Einstine thats true ms “without anti semitism jews would not exist” Albert Einstine

]]> By: ms http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-10088 ms Thu, 09 Dec 2004 17:17:46 +0000 /?p=510#comment-10088 Judaism is in as much danger as ever! Like the story of Hannukah, the danger is in teh assimilation of Jews, the killing of our spiritm the oblivion of our values and traditions. In Hannukah we remember a time in which our prosecuters did not not try to kill us physically ( like so many other wars), buut spiritually. They were trying to kill the Jewish spirit by dissolving it into their pagan society. We are not free from that today. Slowly but surely I see Jews drifting away from the community, marrying outside the Jewish people and most of all , forgetting the values and priviledges that were entrusted to us by G´d. It is the same enemy as in the time of the Maccabees, only now, it is disguised and it is not an all out war. I have a sincere concern for the future of pur people not because of anti-semitism, but because of assimilation. Our numbers are diminishing and every generation we run the risk of becoming less and less. Judaism is in as much danger as ever!
Like the story of Hannukah, the danger is in teh assimilation of Jews, the killing of our spiritm the oblivion of our values and traditions.
In Hannukah we remember a time in which our prosecuters did not not try to kill us physically ( like so many other wars), buut spiritually. They were trying to kill the Jewish spirit by dissolving it into their pagan society.
We are not free from that today. Slowly but surely I see Jews drifting away from the community, marrying outside the Jewish people and most of all , forgetting the values and priviledges that were entrusted to us by G´d. It is the same enemy as in the time of the Maccabees, only now, it is disguised and it is not an all out war.
I have a sincere concern for the future of pur people not because of anti-semitism, but because of assimilation. Our numbers are diminishing and every generation we run the risk of becoming less and less.

]]> By: Rabbi Sammy Jackman http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-9815 Rabbi Sammy Jackman Wed, 08 Dec 2004 19:34:29 +0000 /?p=510#comment-9815 This is a great blog. I remember telling a friend that if Judah Maccabee were alive today and saw a "Chanukah bush", he would chop it down. He replied that our hero Judah would more likely kill the tree's owner. However, do remember that at that point in our history, the alternative was the end of Judaism as a religion altogether. If the Hellenizing laws had been obeyed, there would have been no Mishnah, no Talmud, no Karaites, no Reform and definitely no latkes, gefilte fish or dafina. Today Judaism is not in danger. The only danger posed by those Chanukah bushes becoming Xmas trees is to those Jews who bring up their children that way. They risk not having Jewish grandchildren. I think the Maccabees would know that they had to change their response. Chag Sameach! This is a great blog.
I remember telling a friend that if Judah Maccabee were alive today and saw a “Chanukah bush”, he would chop it down. He replied that our hero Judah would more likely kill the tree’s owner.
However, do remember that at that point in our history, the alternative was the end of Judaism as a religion altogether. If the Hellenizing laws had been obeyed, there would have been no Mishnah, no Talmud, no Karaites, no Reform and definitely no latkes, gefilte fish or dafina.
Today Judaism is not in danger. The only danger posed by those Chanukah bushes becoming Xmas trees is to those Jews who bring up their children that way. They risk not having Jewish grandchildren. I think the Maccabees would know that they had to change their response.
Chag Sameach!

]]> By: Jim R http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-9810 Jim R Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:41:58 +0000 /?p=510#comment-9810 Sean: "The centrist salient lesson from Chanukah is perhaps: Jews must defend, love and respect each other, our traditions, wisdom and culture together with everyone else who loves and respects us." Just awesome. This is going to leave a mark! HAPPY CHANUKAH & SHALOM FROM A GENTILE SEAN ! Sean: “The centrist salient lesson from Chanukah is perhaps: Jews must defend, love and respect each other, our traditions, wisdom and culture together with everyone else who loves and respects us.”

Just awesome. This is going to leave a mark!

HAPPY CHANUKAH & SHALOM FROM A GENTILE SEAN !

]]> By: T_M http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-9722 T_M Wed, 08 Dec 2004 08:00:59 +0000 /?p=510#comment-9722 Happy Chanukah to you as well, True Jew. Happy Chanukah to you as well, True Jew.

]]> By: true Jew http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-9711 true Jew Wed, 08 Dec 2004 07:12:50 +0000 /?p=510#comment-9711 p.s troll f.u. t-m p.s troll f.u. t-m

]]> By: true Jew http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-9710 true Jew Wed, 08 Dec 2004 07:11:42 +0000 /?p=510#comment-9710 I still dont get how the maccabees could be seen as anything but heroic brave men that fought for there people I still dont get how the maccabees could be seen as anything but heroic brave men that fought for there people

]]> By: ck http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-8966 ck Wed, 08 Dec 2004 00:20:56 +0000 /?p=510#comment-8966 yoseph crack (head?): ;) That's all I'm sayin' .... yoseph crack (head?): ;)
That’s all I’m sayin’ ….

]]> By: yoseph crack http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-8920 yoseph crack Tue, 07 Dec 2004 23:49:26 +0000 /?p=510#comment-8920 that's SO cute how you didn't mention the name of the Rabbi who wrote it, because that would distract from the text itself. AS IF Chanuka started with the Maccabees, and was all about them! There's a reason why chazal and the mishna don't mention them at all... Rav Meir is absolutely right, we'r generally not honest enough about how our history, mostly because we don't want to alienate ourselves from the magic of the rituals and community now, and don't know enough to look beyond the facade of your our stories are saying deeper down. that’s SO cute how you didn’t mention the name of the Rabbi who wrote it, because that would distract from the text itself.

AS IF Chanuka started with the Maccabees, and was all about them! There’s a reason why chazal and the mishna don’t mention them at all… Rav Meir is absolutely right, we’r generally not honest enough about how our history, mostly because we don’t want to alienate ourselves from the magic of the rituals and community now, and don’t know enough to look beyond the facade of your our stories are saying deeper down.

]]> By: Dave Marshall http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-8882 Dave Marshall Tue, 07 Dec 2004 23:02:12 +0000 /?p=510#comment-8882 I am not an observant Jew. I do not believe in Torah miSinai. I do say my prayers on most days. I can assure those Orthodox people who believe that they have the monopoly on belief in Hashem, that many if not all Reform, Conservative and other non-Orthodox Jews would have fought and died with the Maccabees and even I, a Sefardic middle of the road Jew (not religious enough for the Orthodox, and too religious for the Reform) would have fought and died with the Maccabees. Why? Because Antiochus Epiphanies and in general the Seleucid empire wanted to abolish our faith in Hashem. That was what was really at stake. Because 99 percent of Jews really do believe that there is an Eternal Creator of the Universe, who cannot and must not be represented by an idol, and is Indivisible, Unknowable, and always always Merciful to us and all humanity, with a Mercy and Kindness beyond human understanding. This is the core of our faith, and I'm certain that even the Samaritans and the Karaites agree with us on that. I am not an observant Jew. I do not believe in Torah miSinai.
I do say my prayers on most days. I can assure those Orthodox people who believe that they have the monopoly on belief in Hashem, that many if not all Reform, Conservative and other non-Orthodox Jews would have fought and died with the Maccabees and even I, a Sefardic middle of the road Jew (not religious enough for the Orthodox, and too religious for the Reform) would have fought and died with the Maccabees.

Why?
Because Antiochus Epiphanies and in general the Seleucid empire wanted to abolish our faith in Hashem. That was what was really at stake.

Because 99 percent of Jews really do believe that there is an Eternal Creator of the Universe, who cannot and must not be represented by an idol, and is Indivisible, Unknowable, and always always Merciful to us and all humanity, with a Mercy and Kindness beyond human understanding. This is the core of our faith, and I’m certain that even the Samaritans and the Karaites agree with us on that.

]]> By: Sean Morgan http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-8641 Sean Morgan Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:38:22 +0000 /?p=510#comment-8641 The wonderful thing about Judaism is that it is both particularist and universalist at the same time and neither is really in conflict with each other. The story of Chanukah embodies this paradox magnificantly. The facts remain the same, but the meanings evolve, just as do Jews. From the particularist and parochial perspective, Chanukah is the story of the the Hashmonean violent battles and revolt against Hellenistic foreign pagan cultural imperialism and oppression through the use of The Maccabbi / Hammer. For that reason is the ultimate example of the muscular nationalism a/k/a Zionist - Jew. On the other hand, Chanukah does embody a universalistic message of the constant need to be vigilant in defense of the right of freedom of religion. Also, small miracles can happen(such as the oil lasting for 8 days) even in our own lives if only we are perceptive enough to see them and stop to smell the roses, so to speak. The centrist salient lesson from Chanukah is perhaps: Jews must defend, love and respect each other, our traditions, wisdom and culture together with everyone else who loves and respects us. HAPPY CHANUKAH & SHALOM Y'ALL ! The wonderful thing about Judaism is that it is both particularist and universalist at the same time and neither is really in conflict with each other. The story of Chanukah embodies this paradox magnificantly. The facts remain the same, but the meanings evolve, just as do Jews.

From the particularist and parochial perspective, Chanukah is the story of the the Hashmonean violent battles and revolt against Hellenistic foreign pagan cultural imperialism and oppression through the use of The Maccabbi / Hammer. For that reason is the ultimate example of the muscular nationalism a/k/a Zionist – Jew.

On the other hand, Chanukah does embody a universalistic message of the constant need to be vigilant in defense of the right of freedom of religion. Also, small miracles can happen(such as the oil lasting for 8 days) even in our own lives if only we are perceptive enough to see them and stop to smell the roses, so to speak.

The centrist salient lesson from Chanukah is perhaps: Jews must defend, love and respect each other, our traditions, wisdom and culture together with everyone else who loves and respects us.

HAPPY CHANUKAH & SHALOM Y’ALL !

]]> By: T_M http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-8211 T_M Tue, 07 Dec 2004 08:15:00 +0000 /?p=510#comment-8211 Methinks we have a troll among us. Methinks we have a troll among us.

]]> By: true Jew http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-8209 true Jew Tue, 07 Dec 2004 07:30:19 +0000 /?p=510#comment-8209 if chanuka hade not hapend there would not be jews to day the "greeks" (actualy asyrians who adopted greek culture) were forced the the jews to abadon there culture. 1. its rong to conqure a people and make them like you. 2. a people can not exist withoute culture an identity. 3. jews were the people living in irael/judea what clame did the asyians have to it. the macabeas fought a repressive government with an ocupieing army to presurve there people there culture and yeas the judaism that was handed down to us at mount sini the judaism that made our ansesters ready to give there lives for the L*0rd this is is worth fighting for this is worth dieing for p.s. how the fuck is juaism bigoted!!! if chanuka hade not hapend there would not be jews to day the “greeks” (actualy asyrians who adopted greek culture) were forced the the jews to abadon there culture.
1. its rong to conqure a people and make them like you.
2. a people can not exist withoute culture an identity.
3. jews were the people living in irael/judea what clame did the asyians have to it.
the macabeas fought a repressive government with an ocupieing army to presurve there people there culture and yeas the judaism that was handed down to us at mount sini the judaism that made our ansesters ready to give there lives for the L*0rd this is is worth fighting for this is worth dieing for p.s. how the fuck is juaism bigoted!!!

]]> By: ck http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-8205 ck Tue, 07 Dec 2004 07:10:42 +0000 /?p=510#comment-8205 *groan* Please do not forget to mention to your child, the generation after generation of religious, Orthodox Jews who a) maintained a continuous Jewish presence in Israel b) maintained Jewish culture and traditions and identity for thousands of years under the most difficult and deadly of circumstances so that our secular friends in Shomer Hatzair could hearken back to some vestige of Judaism and have a raison d'etre for their struggle c) who live in Israel, work, pay taxes, serve in the Army and compose the largest block of practicing Jews Yeah. Lets not forget those guys. Ya Allah chabibi, Patiphon Shavur!! *groan* Please do not forget to mention to your child, the generation after generation of religious, Orthodox Jews who
a) maintained a continuous Jewish presence in Israel
b) maintained Jewish culture and traditions and identity for thousands of years under the most difficult and deadly of circumstances so that our secular friends in Shomer Hatzair could hearken back to some vestige of Judaism and have a raison d’etre for their struggle
c) who live in Israel, work, pay taxes, serve in the Army and compose the largest block of practicing Jews

Yeah. Lets not forget those guys. Ya Allah chabibi, Patiphon Shavur!!

]]> By: ck http://www.jewlicious.com/2004/12/down-with-hanukah/#comment-8207 ck Tue, 07 Dec 2004 06:53:59 +0000 /?p=510#comment-8207 Heh. You know, I consider Herzl a hero. And Ben Gurion, and the secular Kibbutznikim at Yad Mordechai, etc. etc. I've had communist MKs over at my house. I love all Jews. This post is not a taunt silly. I just threw it up there to stimulate discussion. Having said that however, I do note that you haven't addressed any of the substantial points it presents. Just sayin ;) And please, self confessed sheygetz that you are, I still submit that you are in all likelihood a better Jew than I, if I were ever going to make such a judgement, and all this despite the fact that I keep kosher and go to synagogue etc. etc. So please, can we move on? Heh. You know, I consider Herzl a hero. And Ben Gurion, and the secular Kibbutznikim at Yad Mordechai, etc. etc. I’ve had communist MKs over at my house. I love all Jews.

This post is not a taunt silly. I just threw it up there to stimulate discussion. Having said that however, I do note that you haven’t addressed any of the substantial points it presents. Just sayin ;)

And please, self confessed sheygetz that you are, I still submit that you are in all likelihood a better Jew than I, if I were ever going to make such a judgement, and all this despite the fact that I keep kosher and go to synagogue etc. etc. So please, can we move on?

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