Comments on: The Arranged Marriage: Still Shtetl Fabulous?

By: My Urban Kvetch 2005

My Urban Kvetch 2005 — Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:01:43 +0000

Make Me a Match…
Today, in business, in life, and in romance, it’s all about making matches. A few weeks ago, before I left for California, I did a singles workshop at the JCC of Manhattan called

By: Daphna

Daphna — Tue, 19 Apr 2005 18:29:39 +0000

I cannot imagine who my parents would set me up with. I do not want to imagine. Of course, the shadchanim and friends seem to be on a “super-boring men” roll, so maybe my parents could beat their track record.

Hmmm…am starting to think of throwing in the towel and buying a cat.

By: Esther

Esther — Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:25:18 +0000

Oy, Ricker Aish. You mean you totally missed the seven thousand comments or so about the Shomer Negiah blog? Do yourself a favor and read some of our “back-issues”.

You need to be attracted to your spouse, period. But attraction’s more than external–it’s about who you are inside in combination with what you look like. (Ucch. I sound like such a girl.)

By: Ricker Aish

Ricker Aish — Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:35:17 +0000

I was hoping to discuss why there are so many singles in the frum community in their 30′s,40
‘s and beyond. There was a recent blog that highlighted this problem. Shomernegiah.blogspot.com

Is it a matter of attitude then? In the frum circles, it is common to reject someone for a reason that you don’t find the other person attractive. I have had this happen when I helped set someone up on such a date. He did not find her attractive, yet I thought that she was totally Jewlicious.

How do you break this mindset?

By: Shira

Shira — Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:02:43 +0000

Now I’m curious… got a photo of this girl? ;P

Anyway I just wanted to add Ben-David’s post was great, definitely food for thought. I just started going out with a great guy and I”ll have to think about the questions posed on this thread… (even if it wasn’t anything near arranged by our parents – our friends set us up, heh heh)

By: shtreimel

shtreimel — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:30:52 +0000

Ephraim…you’re probably right

By: Ephraim

Ephraim — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:29:13 +0000

It was tough on him. He really loved her. But Torah was more important to him, believe it or not.

And if you had met her, you would understand what I’m talking about. Instead of saying “yuch to the power of two”, you would have said “DUUUUUuuude…….”.

By: shtreimel

shtreimel — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:27:51 +0000

“…why not start using Hasem?”
Huh? For whom, for what? Why am I not getting this? Buller? Buller?

By: TM

TM — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:25:28 +0000

Shtreimel, I was just thinking that since we already use other names, like HaShem, to remove ourselves from saying (close your eyes!!!) yhwh, why not start using Hasem?

By: shtreimel

shtreimel — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:15:11 +0000

Ephraim,

We agree. And your son sounds wise beyond his years.

By: Ephraim

Ephraim — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:13:48 +0000

Well Shtreimel, what do you think all of those prohibitons in Leviticus are for? It is pretty obvious that some guys had the misfortune of having Jewlicious daughters-in-law and so Hashem had to tell them to behave themselves.

My point in relating that story is not to point up my personal failings. My point is that she was a beautiful, desirable woman whom most men would have given their eye teeth to marry. In spite of that, my son realized that while she was wonderful romantc fling materal, she wasn’t the wife he wanted.

My point about dating is simple: if you both go into it knowing what you want, the other person’s compatibility as a long-term mate will be quite apparent after a few dates. It might not sound particularly romantic, but it is a practical way of finding out if a person is a suitable mate.

By: shtreimel

shtreimel — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:11:07 +0000

Wrong post TM. Or are you being sly and cryptic for a reason?

By: TM

TM — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:08:23 +0000

Who is Hasem?

By: shtreimel

shtreimel — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:07:01 +0000

“But if you want to have a family and she doesn’t, what is the point of continuing on?”

Most of my male friends were reluctant about:

a) marriage
b) kids

These same friends are married and with kids.

By: shtreimel

shtreimel — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:04:17 +0000

“In retrospect, it was a good thing. I don’t think I could have dealt with having a dughter-in-law so beautiful that I wanted to date her.”

Honest, but yuch to the power of two.

By: Ephraim

Ephraim — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:01:01 +0000

Being married is not the same as being romatically attracted to a person. As I said, Orthodox people date in order to find a spouse. You might fid a woman who is beautiful, witty, cultured, etc., everything you could possibly want. But if you want to have a family and she doesn’t, what is the point of continuing on? Keep dating in the hope that you can change her mind? Marry her and needle her for years until she either gives in or divorces you? Etc.

My son was in a relationshp with a breathtakingly beautiful, well-traveled, open-minded, intelligent, funny woman. (Did I mention that she was astonishngly good-looking? Not just cute or pretty, but moth-to-flame beautiful, the kind of woman who makes you stop and stare, open-mouthed and drooling like an idiot, convnced that you have finally found the proof of Hasem’s existence.). I was certain that they were going to be married.

But, she simply didn’t have the frum gene, and it was clear that she wasn’t interested in having a family. So, he ended it.

In retrospect, it was a good thing. I don’t think I could have dealt with having a dughter-in-law so beautiful that I wanted to date her.

She got married to a rich banker 6 months after they broke up.

By: shtreimel

shtreimel — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 19:30:56 +0000

“I have known what I wanted to do since I was 8. ”

Esther,

Like yourself, my girlfriend knew she wanted to be a doctor since she was 8. And she’s a doctor. But you’re two very fortunate individuals. Check out a book by Po Bronson entitled “What Should I Do With My Life?” to get a feel for how the other 90% of us live.

“The trouble has been convincing them…”
I hear Rohypnol does wonders.

By: Esther

Esther — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 19:25:02 +0000

I have known what I wanted to do since I was 8. And I know what kinds of guys would be good for me. The trouble has been convincing them…

By: shtreimel

shtreimel — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 19:18:21 +0000

“I think most normal people will know after a date or two that a certain person is not for them.”

Really? I don’t agree. Not at all. Some VERY VERY lucky people KNOW after a date or two. In general, these are the same people that KNOW what career they’d like to do when they’re 14. I envy them, I truly do.

I believe most people aren’t sure. And what tradition tells us (and this seems to be backed by family/marital systems theory) is that the choice you’ve made is PROBABLY a very good choice, both good and bad. Now make it work.

By: Ricker Aish

Ricker Aish — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 19:02:10 +0000

I am not sure to what extent people really check out practical goals. For example, some people want to be in a 2 income household. Some women, may say that they will work, but once they have children they decide to take off a few years to raise their children. This is a human condition to change your mind, but it could cause the man to feel cheated.
As well, women need to check out a man better in terms of his anger. For example, some men may be under control at work, since there is a hierarchy there, and the man is not going to punch out his boss, even tho he may want to. Yet at home, this man is the so called boss, in that he is in a position of power in the family, and he might take liberties w/ his power, that he wouldn’t do on the outside.
IMO, these type of topics are more important than most.
The problem in many frum arranged marriages is that the people are very young, they may only see $ signs, or
visions of sexual fulfillment, when the sex drive may be opposites.