Jewish Men are Hot XXXIII.III


Boy Vey!After a week of pursuit and nagging, Kristina Grish finally acquiesced and agreed to drinks and an interview with the Grand Muffti. When Muffti called her a ‘hottie’ a few posts back, he was dead wrong. ‘Hottie’ is a majour understatement and it is crystal clear why Jew after Jew succumbs to her temptations. Of course, Muffti didn’t, but that’s largely because she was totally uninterested she has a (lapsed) catholic boyfriend who goes by the unfortunate sobriquet ‘Mr. Maybe’. Her eye-candy features aside, KG is also an engaging, fun, intelligent woman who charmed Muffti with amusing anecdotes and interesting insights. Muffti returned the favour by laughing a lot, asking a couple of questions and, well, paying for dinner and drinks.

Muffti had a great time and he hopes Kristina did too. We talked, we laughed and Muffti walked her home. He’s thinking about writing a book of his own, How Jews can Rob Shegetz’s of Their Shiksa’s and he can now honestly report that if you are as charming as Muffti, prepare to coif more than three black current mojitos [hat tip to Voyage]. Unfortunately, there aren’t any dirty details to relate, and not because Muffti is some kind of gentleman. Perhaps, however, there will be another outing sometime soon where Muffti won’t have to front like he’s some kind of reporter. You will be glad to know that Kristina promised Muffti a real date if things don’t work out with Mr. Maybe. That has to be worth something, right?

Below is a review of KG’s latest work, Boy Vey! The Shiksa’s Guide to Dating Jewish Men, accompanied by bits and pieces from the interview. Quotes from the book have a page marking; otherwise, all quotes are directly from Grish’s lovely lips. KG cast a lot of pearls, but since this swine forgot to bring a recording device, you’ll have to settle for the few choice quotes that were preserved. Oink, Oink.

Boy Vey! provides an overview of essential aspects of the Jewish male psyche [read: neuroses], family [read: mother] and linguistic idiosyncrasies [read: Yiddishisms]. It offers advice about a span of topics as diverse as:

  • where to meet your Jew: including a state by state breakdown of Jew to goy populations.
  • what to expect your Jew to look like naked: ‘more body hair than a yak’, but no tattoos and a decent sized member.
  • what to bring for Passover dinner: no loafs of bread, no Manischewitz.
  • how to speak of your Jew to his family: three words, Dote, Gloat and Emote!

The book is breezy and humorous in tone, but don’t let that fool you into thinking that it lacks content. While Muffti at first thought that much of it was fairly obvious, that reaction is probably a function of his growing up in a Jewish household, serving as a Ba’al Kreeah at shul and attending a dreary Jewish high school. There are many valuable facts about kashrut, the holidays and Jewish traditions that would benefit any woman who hasn’t been immersed in Jewish culture.

KG’s research involved a wealth of personal experiences, random interviewing as well as consultations with professionals in the field (psychologists, match makers and the like). The ‘personal experience’ aspect was extensive enough (averaging 2.5 Jews dated per year) to result in her mother proffering the following toast at a dinner party:

… To my daughter, who has been quite the ho-bag for the past few years..

KG, however, assures Muffti that the charge is unjust since she didn’t sleep with all of them. How many didn’t she sleep with? She isn’t saying and it’s none of your business.

Why did KG write the book? Partly because her experiences dating Jews had led her to realize that what was needed was:

A very carefully and respectfully written, researched and personalized book about dating Jewish men from an outsider’s perspective – with parentheticals, like ‘you know you are entering a world that’s not your own. So bring a macaroon cake.’ I thought that someone needed to speak from experience with a little bit of chutzpah who isn’t Jewish. Plus, there’s a lot of market demand: With 53% rates of intermarriage, you can see why some women might need a reference.

Partly because KG really, really, likes Jews. When Muffti asked what made her realize she liked Jews in the first place, she answered:

So I was having dinner with my best friend Amy [Jewish], and seeing this British bloke at the time. I told her how everything should be falling into place more easily than it was: we had the same sense of humor, we liked going out to the same places, we had mutual friends…this should have been working. But something wasn’t clicking for me. So she says: ‘You’re kidding, right?…K, I don’t like the fact that you date every man that I should be dating, but you have a very specific type and it has been Jewish for the last 6 years. You have only successfully dated Jewish men and you have veered away from them.’

Finally, partly because writing the book was Kristina’s way of showing respect for that forbidden love a shiksa has for her Jew. Various problems and faux pas could be avoided with a non-threatening, personal reference guide like Boy Vey.

Looking on Amazon, Muffti couldn’t help but notice that there are quite a few guides to dating Jews. Some are massively informative (i.e. ‘What to Do When You’re Dating a Jew’ by Vikki Weiss and Jennifer A. Block) and some funny (‘Jewish as a second Language’, by Molly Katz) but none except hers, according to KG, have the virtue of being written by a shiksa for shiksas. Nonetheless, her shiksaness puts some limitations on how free she feels to express herself:

It’s one thing for [comedian] Sarah Silverman to make a joke about the size of a Jewish man’s testicles but to have someone who is outside the faith make an assessment about any man who is in the faith, she’s subjecting herself to a lot of controversial rebuttal.

The book reflects this to a certain degree: even the chapter entitled ‘The First Shtup’ is tamer than one might have expected from a saucy shiksa. On religious issues, the book is offers fairly surface level information. Nothing Jewish is painted in a negative light at all, unless in an overtly tongue and cheek manner. To assist her with post-publication fallout, KG answers emails on religious issues through consultation with a surprisingly sympathetic orthodox rabbi.

As an author, KG largely represents herself as a cartographer mapping out the mysterious dark continent of the modern Jewish man. How accurate is the map? At first, Muffti felt no connection to any of the many men described within the guide’s pink covers. Some of them made his eyes roll (i.e. Andy, the neurotic wimp). Others made him laugh (i.e. Rad Brad, the mildly ridiculous stud). Yet others made him recoil in disgust (i.e. Max, the weepy Yom Kippur philanderer. Grow a pair, dude, or get yer ass to shul.) However, by the end of the book Muffti realized that even he, the blondish-green-eyed-laid-back-atheist-goy-look-alike could squint a shadowy reflection in the waters of Boy Vey. He had a bar mitzvah he remembers fondly, a stint at Jewish summer camp where he had his first kiss (Inge B., sweetheart, Muffti’d like to thank ya!) and a teen tour to Israel where he had various alcohol stained misadventures. He has a mother who treat shiksas with mixed civility and mild hostility. He is occasionally self-effacing (stop smirking, faithful reader!). Most of all, he sympathizes with the men in the book who like having their ego stroked, their skills in bed complemented and a woman who can retain her good spritis and humour when they have problems.

But wait! That last point! Aren’t ALL guys like that? Muffti shares your concern. And truthfully, much of the book has wider application than shiksa-Jew romance. Muffti supposes this is partly a result of the type of Jew Grish has in mind “…he’s likely either reform or simply acculturated, and thus, open-minded about mixing it up a bit.”(p. 4) Nonetheless, there is a sufficient amount of Yiddish-specific content to prevent Boy Vey from merely fronting as a targeted how-to guide. As Grish put it:

A lot of the tips are simply good tips for making your way through a first family introduction, for example – it works dually as a guide book on good dating manners. That’s the skeleton, but the book is specifically geared toward the Jewish faith.

So, the tips are universal (in the American sense, meaning, ‘applicable to Americans’) but the details are particular. Nonetheless, Muffti should note that in striving for generality, one does lose a certain degree of applicability (remember, the reflection was shadowy). A real instance of the form of Grish’s ‘hebrew honey’ is a food loving, overtly oedipal, neurotic professional with a deep sense of guilt and a pillowy tuft of chest hair. Muffti, for one, would not want a shiksa treating him as though he were Woody Allen. He also wouldn’t want her assuming he ‘analyzes the relationship more than [she] does’ (p. 53) And above all else, he rather that she not think Muffti ‘…answers his mom’s phone calls during sex.’ (p. 75) The man that she envisions probably ill represents any particular Jewish man considered as a whole, but is unlikely not to latch on to parts of his personality. Jewish mothers, as well, will probably bear a merely partial similarity to the hostile, whinging yentes she portrays as targets for pacification. Comparison with your mother will probably leave you noticing the differences as well as the similarities. As such, like all guide books, you are advised to learn what you can about the archetype and then apply creatively, rather than blithely assume Grish’s map is drawn exactly to scale.

There is one glaring omission that Muffti found to be puzzling. One might think to warn shiksas that their political opinions about Israel may well not result in casual political chat even with reform or acculturated Jews. It could well be a deal breaker. In Grish’s words:

The whole state of Israeli politics is forever in flux and to include a chapter on that would take the book’s overarching subject and intent to a much more serious level. Boy Vey is meant to be a light read. Israel fits in nicely when I talk about a young boy’s upbringing, when he visits for the purpose of teen tours. I’m not a historian; I’m not a politician; I’m a relationship writer.

Fair enough, but Muffti hereby warns the shiksa community: it’s best not to tangle with Israel in a casual relationship and it may cause unbridgeable gaps in a long term one. That advice, furthermore, goes triple when it comes to conversing with the family.

Anyhow, the book is full of other interesting tidbits, including a whole chapter called ‘Why Antacids are the Fifth Food Group’. This chapter includes some (largely Ashkenazic) recipes which Muffti’s mom assures him are waaaaaaay off (‘add dill to the chicken soup and always use Kosher salt,’ she insists, ‘or it will taste like a Shiksa made it!’). Tips for preparing the meal accompany tips to prepare for eating the meal. After a chapter devoted to ‘The Jewish Mother’, there is a chapter on ‘Misphocheh and the Hanukkah Bush’ which gives a run down of the rest of the family (the ratio of mom to rest of family content is striking, but Muffti supposes unsurprising) and a quick primer on Yiddish in a chapter called ‘Talk Yiddish to Me’.

How have things gone for KG since the publication of the book? There have been postive moments. Whereas before hand, her interest in Jews didn’t involve a real appreciation of the religion, it took on a new meaning after correspondence with her readers and admirers:

That’s what’s been so interesting about publishing this book. It’s introduced me to so many wonderfully fantastic Jews, and I’ve discovered new depths of Judaism I hadn’t noticed or been exposed to before. So yes, Jews are more than simply “tall, dark and circumsized.”

Furthermore, the response has been mostly positive:

99% of the responses I’ve had to the book have been positive. I’ve never been asked out on so many dates, sent ‘thank you for understanding me’ emails from men and women, and tell me that I’ve managed to describe their “boyfriend to a T.”

However, 99% still leaves 1% left over and some have taken umbrage. In particular, there was a tense confrontation between the author and a young Israeli woman at a book reading recently. She receives many emails challenging her credentials and dismissing her academic capabilities – which is when she turns to her orthodox ghost writer for advice. People who treat the book as a cry to arms by shiksa’s who will soon invade Jewish homes are likely missing the point.

KG, of course, denies that she intended the book to be received as a training manual for stealing Jews or tempting them away from their faith. Nonetheless, it’s hard to see how it could fail to have this effect, even if unintended. KG makes dating a Jew seem pretty rewarding:

There’s a lot to love about a guy who makes your laughter his priority, who talks about your relationship more than you do, who’s wildly intense inside the bedroom and out, who thinks nudging him up the corporate ladder is a sign of affection. Jewish men feed your mind and appetite, and they are the ultimate caretakers without a hint of machismo. They’re also generous and thoughtful, thanks to a matriarchal culture that’s taught them to appreciate women’s strength, candor, humor and intelligence.(p. 3)

Sound pretty good, right? She even manages to paint a rosy picture of the neuroses and guilt she says permeates the Jewish male’s every waking moment:

…But this is yet another reason the Shiksa/Jew connection is so strong: You provide balance to his psyche, and he provides talking points in the relationship. See, everyone wins. (p. 58)

And armed with her book, it’s so easy to date one of these fine fellows! So, while Muffti sympathizes that the intent of the book is probably often misunderstood, he isn’t confident that one doesn’t mimic our noble friend the ostrich in ignoring the perceived danger of making interfaith dating acceptable, attractive and easy.

Is the book a little shallow? Well, it depends on what you expect from it. In style and form it is a bit reminiscent of a trendy woman’s magazine: points are supported by a few anecdotes, a smattering of brief quotes from an expert or two, very clever applications of the advice, and lots of cute charts and lists. It is limited in its description of the Jewish psyche to some striking features, which fails to do justice to the rich tapestry of Jewish inner life. It is no work of theology: a shiksa may get enough tips to keep her head above water for a little while but at the first mention of ‘Rashi’ she will find herself very, very lost. On the other hand, KG over-achieves what she sets out to do, which is no small challenge:

Boy Vey: The Shiksa’s Guide to Dating Jewish Men is simply that- a fun dating guide written for outsiders, by an outsider. Not to mention one who’s proved to be a natural at the Jewish dating shtick…and sees no reason why you can’t be too. (p. 6)

It may be more Cosmo than Civilization and its Discontents in psychological insight. It may be more Tiffany’s Table Manners for Teenagers than The Shulchan Aruch in its instructions for how to behave with the Jews. But it’s entertaining and informative, and it has more than enough substance to make it a worthwhile read for any shiksa trying to understand her reform Jewish man and his religion. In fact, it may help some reform Jewish men get clearer on their religion and how to treat their mothers as well.

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82 Comments

  1. Jobber

    8/23/2005 at 6:57 pm

    Too long. You’re sounding like Rabbis’ now.

    Why this fascination w/ race in the world. Why the seeking for perfection. No one is ever hot enough, write a new book combination. Everything is like that. Food, you can’t just eat, it has to be a presentation.

    but it sells.

    Announcement: Jobber is going away. Or rather, it’s not going anywhere.

  2. grandmuffti

    8/23/2005 at 7:38 pm

    Sorry, Jobber, Muffti guesses it WAS a touch too long. But he has no idea what the hell you are talking about. Perhaps it’s a touch too brief?

  3. Chutzpah

    8/23/2005 at 8:23 pm

    Ok, I’m gonna say it before JSirp does, FUCK YOU SHIKSA BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How’s that for Chutzpah? I’ve had it.
    To quote an interview from Billy (the Jew)Joel who’s FATHER’s side of the family escaped the Holocaust “my family was Jewish but every girl who ever broke my heart was Irish”, this proves without a shadow of a doubt that his Mother was also Jewish.
    On a side note, in the past month my Match.com profile has received 388 hits from non-Jewish men and my JDate profile which is identical received ….are you ready…7.
    P.S. Didn’t read the whole post either, too long.

  4. themiddle

    8/23/2005 at 8:29 pm

    One more note: some jewish men spell better than Muffti. On the other hand, nice article and review.

  5. Le Rachelet

    8/23/2005 at 8:58 pm

    I read it all, I liked, I laughed, I forwarded.
    I’m a shiksa in Israel living with a Jew and it’s not at all like that here (for starters, no yiddish and, on the other hand, my boyfriends’ mothers always loved me – I’m ha’ptzatza, what can I say), but it’s still funny to see how American shiksas have it harder to, in the end, breakup like with any other guy.

  6. Jobber

    8/23/2005 at 9:07 pm

    Match.com looks like the real deal. Now why is that? Because they have good PR people. Now what does a good PR person do? This you will learn in my tutial, but you must purchase me a $5 Starbucks gift card. toodles,

  7. themiddle

    8/23/2005 at 9:48 pm

    Actually, Chutzpah’s ratio of hits is fairly consistent with the percentage of Jews in the general population. JDate invariably will have a much smaller pooler of potential mates than a site that targets the entire population irrespective of faith or background.

  8. rokhl

    8/23/2005 at 10:06 pm

    G-Mufti, you quaff a mojito, not coif. ALso, YOU quaff a mojito, I drink whiskey. Straight up. Helps deal with my shiksa rage/envy.

  9. Chutzpah

    8/23/2005 at 10:10 pm

    “Shiksa rage/envy” …I’ll have to tell my shrink to put that in my charts. Wonder what the official DSM-III code for it is.

  10. themiddle

    8/23/2005 at 10:26 pm

    “pooler”

    What the hell is “pooler?”

    Pool!

  11. David Aaliyah

    8/23/2005 at 10:36 pm

    this whole shiksa situation could be prevented if no one had sex before marriage, or before being engaged to marry. then… suprise, suprise… the number of shiksas with jew-guys would be significantly less. why would any self-respecting jewish guy think about marrying a shiksa who wouldn’t convert? he wouldn’t. and if he doesn’t respect himself, or his faith… forget about him!

    for me, the shiksa concept isn’t about race. plently of jews are not ethnically jewish. it’s about belief. can’t wake up to some xian or islamic girl every morning for the rest of my life, i’ll wonder wtf she’s thinking. son of g-d? spirit of truth? oy… gay.

  12. David Aaliyah

    8/23/2005 at 10:42 pm

    …just read the last bit of the long-ass article… reform jews? bah. any “judaism” that rejects Deuteronomy 7:3 (neither shalt thou make marriages with them: thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.) can hardly be considered anything even close to chorev.

    it’s not about race, it’s about making sure your wife/husband is a person of Torah, ethical mitzvot, mitzvot of purity… mitzvot that renew and protect our covenant of chorev.

  13. grandmuffti

    8/23/2005 at 11:11 pm

    Nice call, Rokhl. Muffti’s spelling is less than, you know, like, good. But he can assure you that on a night where he’s not hanging with his new favourite shiska, he’s downing whiskey with the best of them.

  14. esther

    8/23/2005 at 11:39 pm

    Extremely comprehensive job, Muffti. The Urban Kvetch is impressed with this dissertation. (Although not with the spelling, of course, but enough people have called you out on that, so I feel my work there is done.)

    I don’t really have more to contribute on this subject: I still would rather Jews date and marry Jews, but acknowledge that it’s not up to me. But if someone–Jew or non–marries my husband, I’m gonna be wicked pissed.

  15. esther

    8/23/2005 at 11:40 pm

    Plus, I’m way impressed that you agreed to read a pink book.

  16. themiddle

    8/24/2005 at 12:47 am

    Okay, seriously, this whole thing is moronic. I mean, manuals never work unless they’re for digital cameras and stuff.

  17. ybocher

    8/24/2005 at 2:31 am

    wow grandpa this way the longest post I have ever read. Your work is so monumental that there is no t so much power left to comment on it. But please tell me where do you fit in? reform or “simply acculturated”?

  18. Rachel

    8/24/2005 at 2:56 am

    Is it news that Jewish men are hot? Is it news that since Emancipation (and before) gentile women have chosen the chosen? Not surprising to hear about this book, except that now in the 21c it is totally acceptable (except on the righteous pages of Jewlicious) to marry whomever you want – so why the guide book? I guess there is something to our (and other’s)tribalism after all…OK she is a shiksa, but she makes a great kugel!

  19. themiddle

    8/24/2005 at 4:06 am

    I got a haircut today from an Italian-Canadian woman. She pointedly did not call me “hot.”

    Maybe she thought it.

  20. Kabblah Man

    8/24/2005 at 10:43 am

    For another take on this book visit Jewish-Outreach.Blogspot.com and look for the post Oy Vey…Boy Vey!!

  21. Chutzpah

    8/24/2005 at 11:00 am

    The Portugese & Trinada valet car parkers at work think I am very hot and never fail to give me the best spots complete with compliments. Now if I could just figure out why I don’t have the same effect on Jewish guys I’d be all set.

  22. grandmuffti

    8/24/2005 at 11:18 am

    Ybocher, now you call Muffti grandpa?!?

    Sorry about the length and the spelling. How about this. email any spelling mistakes you have to ck and he’ll go and fix them. Muffti is too tired from the ‘dissertation’ he wrote :)

  23. grandmuffti

    8/24/2005 at 11:21 am

    By the way, did anyone get the joke behind the numbering of the post?

  24. Jewish Mother

    8/24/2005 at 11:36 am

    I read the book, and I am impressed with the writer. Anybody who does not pick up her underlying hostility is too young, a self-limiting condition. Of course, the author has a right to be herself, and a right to her point of view.

    “A smart enemy is better than a stupid friend,” says the proverb. A smart enemy know things about you. The author is not an enemy of any specific person, obviously: she has acted nice, and not kidded anybody about anything. Almost anything. But, she has an agenda. And she is not really being herself, not really being honest. If she were, she would say, look, you’re interesting, but you eat like pig, look like a yak, and are basically wierd. Alien. Odd. I am not in this because I really get you, but because you bring certain stuff I can use. And, you are a refuge from my own men, who have, let us say, problems. So I am willing to put up with your, er, wierdness. And that strange creature you use for a mother, who, fortunately, I know how to handle.

    The book should be used to fix what’s wrong! No, that does not mean getting a body waxing.

    The Jewish men should all read it. Their mothers should all read it. That might help a few things. Mothers have to recognize when raising a son is a completed project, and back off.

    The Jewish women should not read it however, as they are too sensitive. Or, they should only read it after age 40.

    “Bird never make nest in bare tree.” Remember that, every day of your life. It’s hairy shoulder time, oy gevalt.

    We endlessly try to escape our historic burden, but we can’t. The more we face it, the better things will go. Let’s not try to take the easy way out. It does not work.

    Very useful book. Very. I am just starting her other book about shoes.

    If I were a Jewish guy, I would wonder, EVERY SINGLE TIME a Christian woman smiled at me, if SHE had read this book. It is available to anybody, after all. No matter how hard she denied it, I would still wonder. The minute you ask if she has read it, she goes out and obtains it and reads it. Unless she had already. Yak, yak yak.

    Yes, life can be superficially easier and more fun when you fundamentally don’t care, but I don’t think that works out long term.

  25. Jobber

    8/24/2005 at 12:07 pm

  26. Tom Morrissey

    8/24/2005 at 12:14 pm

    Muffti: Is there a chapter entitled, ‘Jewish Men Who Can’t Pick Up On Signals’?

    Man.

    She’s hot. Smart, engaging, virtually tribal, prepared to put up with an apparently interminable interview. But, alas– she’s got a boyfriend, a slug she ringingly endorses as . . . “Mr Maybe”?

    And Muffti’s reaction? Run up the white flag.

    It’s right there, buddy. All you gotta do is walk through the door.

    PS– you too, Middle– what, your hairdresser has to undress you before you sit up and take notice? What’s up with you guys?

  27. grandmuffti

    8/24/2005 at 12:17 pm

    Jobber, who are you calling ‘stunning’? Muffti is fond of your posts but sometimes they are woefully uninterpretable, like Muffti’s spelling.

  28. grandmuffti

    8/24/2005 at 12:21 pm

    Alas, Morrissey, Muffti is afraid there is no such chapter.The interview wasn’t interminable, silly! Muffti only really asked like 5 questions!

    And, in fairness, the ‘slug’ she endorses as ‘Mr. Maybe’ also received a great deal of praise and enjoyed much better representation than Muffti is portraying. But who the hell wants to read about that?!?

    Thanks for the vote of confidence, though. Muffti really wants to hang with Morrissey for a night on the town. He’s pretty sure we’ll walk into bars and Morrissey will be like ‘see all these chicks? Sure they aren’t sending any obvious signals. Sure they are hangin’ with loser boyfriends. Sure they are way out of our league. But be equally assured: THEY WANT ME!’ :)

  29. Joe Schmo

    8/24/2005 at 12:55 pm

    I don’t blame the Jewish girls here from getting upset. You are dealing with a bunch of putzs. I would suggest that leave this group behind- there is no Jewish future with them.

    Go back to your roots what your great-grandparents were about.

    Get involved with the ‘real’ Jewish community the ones here to stay not the ones with one foot out the door.

  30. Chutzpah

    8/24/2005 at 1:12 pm

    Schmo,
    My great-grandmother was a flapper in the 20′s. My other greatgrandmother was a famous actress in the Yiddish theatre, Fanny Waxman. That false call to nostalgia sucked me into Orthodoxy when I was 24…trust me…”real” (by that I suppose you mean Orthodox” men are no better. I’m back to what my great-grandparents were about …assimilating enough into American culture to have some fun and make some money while retaining Jewish ethics.

  31. Jobber

    8/24/2005 at 1:34 pm

    Mainly what gets people to become BT’s is a need to belong somewhere, that is their secret. BT Yeshivas give that stuff big time. The rest of it works out as long as people are happy and normal. Unless one of the partners flips out totally and demands the other become ever more strict. This happens too often and imo is not being addressed by these places.

    I like Jewish ethics alot. Especially the sensitivaty shown to those who lacked means. This is what attracted me to Orthodoxy. 2 example. One when people used to make Shiva calls, they would bring food much as we do today.
    The rich used to bring food on fancy gold and silver platters, the poor got depressed over this bec. they would bring food in a brown paper bag. So the Rabbis’ enacted an edict, no fancy platter. Other example had to do w/ Tu B’av, the lovers holiday. The singles used to gather somewhere and the rich women of course wore the designer threads, embarrassing the girl from poor families, so the Rabbis’ said, everyone wears the same thing.
    This concern for fairness, is what I still love about Judaism, altho obviously we can’t have these edicts put in anymore, amongst the modern ortho and to some extent the Yeshivish. The Hassidim can put these in to some extent, but I could never become Hassidic.

  32. themiddle

    8/24/2005 at 1:06 pm

    Hey Tom, my normal hairdresser is a man. As for this woman, I didn’t find her too attractive. Plus, and this is the biggie, I’m married.

  33. Joe Schmo

    8/24/2005 at 2:07 pm

    Chutzpah I suppose for some of us we have to go further back than great-grandparents.

    In either case quit complaining. You can’t complain about others having fun when you want the same.

  34. Tom Morrissey

    8/24/2005 at 2:18 pm

    Muffti, we’ll do that night on the town sometime soon. (Middle, thanks for the clarification.)

    Hmm, Jews and gentiles seem to hear the same words differently. So, here’s my own hot book idea– a Jewish-Gentile dictionary. Useful words and phrases, that kind of thing.

    Example– the phrase: “Mr. Maybe.”

    Jewish translation: “Mr. Maybe.”

    Gentile translation: “My place or yours?”

  35. grandmuffti

    8/24/2005 at 2:33 pm

    hehehe…that book sounds like a good idea Morrissey! Muffti has a feeling he knows how it goes.

    Example – the phrase ‘I’m busy Saturday night.’
    Jew translation: ‘She’s busy Saturday night.’
    Gentile translation: ‘Come over and do me doggy style’.

    Example – the phrase: ‘Hey what’s up?’
    Jew translation: ‘Hey what’s up?’
    Gentile translation: ‘How much more of an invitation do you need to throw me to the ground, drag me to a semi-private spot and give it to me til I can take no more’?

    There are definitely times Muffti wishes he were a gentile.

  36. Tom Morrissey

    8/24/2005 at 2:36 pm

    Muffti, you’ve got the drift! That bar excursion’s looking very promising….

  37. grandmuffti

    8/24/2005 at 2:42 pm

    Well, Morrissey, Muffti supposes that if after all these years you have avoided jail time, your theory is either right or you have very good legal representation…now where did I put Kristina’s number becuase Muffti has clearly misinterpretted!

  38. Tom Morrissey

    8/24/2005 at 2:49 pm

    Muffti– she gave you her number? Talk about being good to go! As a friend of mine told me on vacation, ‘all you have to do is walk through that door, it’s right there…’

  39. Tom Morrissey

    8/24/2005 at 2:50 pm

    (I did, and a ludicrous scene ensued, but that’s another story.)

  40. grandmuffti

    8/24/2005 at 3:19 pm

    Morrissey, Muffti has time. And now that he feels so bad for being such a wus in light of all the missed evidence, he wouldn’t mind a ridiculous story to cheer him up!

  41. Chutzpah

    8/24/2005 at 3:28 pm

    Tom, did you send me a pic of you at Martha’s vineyard or was that Jobber pretending to be you?

  42. Tom Morrissey

    8/24/2005 at 3:57 pm

    A long story– I’ll spare you the details. The gist of it had to do with my (purported) best friend physically obstructing a blond-haired, blue-eyed, buxom babette from breaking into my bedroom, and insisting she return to her own quarters.

    ($2K for a summer rental on MV, and this is my reward? Thanks, dude.)

    As for the babette– never has our outdoor shower looked so good as when she so… casually made use of it. But I digress.

    Meanwhile, file this under Small World Dept.:

    The day of my departure for vaca, I run into Mrs. Simon, a friend of mine in the ‘hood, and a survivor of Theresienstadt. We grab a coffee together, literally as I’m about to hit the road.

    Upon arrival on MV, I learn that babette’s just returned from a trip to Germany with her dad, a rather angry, demanding guy whose relationship with his daughter’s been quite poor.

    Discover from a third party that the trip concerned Dad’s efforts to find the grave of Grandpa, a Wehrmacht officer who died someplace in Saxony in the waning days of the war. His widow (babette’s grandma) became a postwar prostitute, servicing American and British soldiers until she earned enough Deutschemarks to move her family to the US.

    And now we’re all living here in Boston. All’s well that ends well, right?

    ( She went naked at the beach, too. Guess that’s the German influence.)

  43. Tom Morrissey

    8/24/2005 at 3:58 pm

    chutzpah, that was me. I’ll send you another.

  44. grandmuffti

    8/24/2005 at 4:02 pm

    heheh…ok, Muffti feels better! That was a great story. Muffti has a similar story but it’s less exciting: a party, a girl, a ‘friend’ interfering for reasons that are still beyond Muffti’s comprehension. Thanks, Patrick, Muffti owes you one.

  45. Chutzpah

    8/24/2005 at 4:29 pm

    ok, cause Jobber’s been sending me fake emails.

  46. Tom Morrissey

    8/24/2005 at 4:34 pm

    chutzpah, is he single?

  47. Jobber

    8/24/2005 at 6:02 pm

    Jobber is not single but sees nothing wrong w/ speaking w/ all peoples, both on and off line.

  48. Chutzpah

    8/24/2005 at 6:12 pm

    It’s wrong if the person has asked to cease and desist.

  49. Jewish Mother

    8/24/2005 at 6:36 pm

    This link below is a nice discussion of the Jewish view of wealth, and, of the modesty of not flaunting wealth, and promoting equality of appearances, and showing sensitivity to people who have less, not having them stand out, or be embarrased.

    It’s got the girls all wearing white dresses to make the rich ones and the poor ones look the same.

    (That’s why the groom says his bracha to the bride one phrase at a time, repeating after the rabbi. Because, some did not have the knowledge to say the whole thing at once. This takes away the distinction between learned and unlearned grooms.)

    jlaw.com/Artic...

    It is a huge mitzvah not to shame people, and to protect them from embarrassment, by covering for them in some way.

    Now THAT’s hot.

  50. Jobber

    8/24/2005 at 9:30 pm

    There are nuances aplenty in an online setting. There are many instances of a confidential discussion that would leave one to beleive that otherwise was being considered, as was stated often companionship is a big plus. in fact, i loathe all this posting shit, gimme real people any day of the week. Well it depends, lol.

  51. Jobber

    8/24/2005 at 9:36 pm

    Yes JM, your post is hot, but where does one see this in real life?

  52. Jobber

    8/24/2005 at 10:31 pm

    Sorry I had not read the formal and official notice. I am really sorry. I don’t check that address. I thought this was common knowledge.
    I made a terrible mistake and now I will pay w. the lack of endearment.
    I am trying to learn not to blame something outside of myself, I do this at work alot. At work, I am periodically being accused of screwing something up, and then I concoct a defense like, well this person told me such and such. This seems to be a common reaction. Well at any I am hurt by my own lack of dignity.

  53. Jobber

    8/24/2005 at 10:37 pm

    Maybe they could remove the graffiti?

  54. Jewish Mother

    8/25/2005 at 2:24 pm

    NOTHING personal was meant. It’s just an interesting link, that’s all. Somebody mentioned this kind of refined ethics so I thought people might want to see this.

    As for real life occurrences, I DID mention the wedding thing. Goes on all the time.

    Maybe we should be very careful not to show up our dates’ lesser brilliance than our own? Not everybody has been to exotic places. Some very nice people don’t know how to eat an artichoke.

  55. Jobber

    8/25/2005 at 3:22 pm

    I just meant that it is unfortunate that we don’t live in this manner in reality. That we have heard about the problems families have w/ tuitions, so many send their children out of the system, and no one is bothered enough to actually do something about it.

  56. Jewish Mother

    8/25/2005 at 3:38 pm

    If the school wants your kid in class, because he or she adds to the interest and stability of the class group and its “process” as they put it

    THEY WILL GIVE YOU A DISCOUNT.

  57. Jewish Mother

    8/25/2005 at 3:42 pm

    Speak to them in private and swear, swear you will never, ever tell anybody. Especially no other families. Just ask. State plainly and sincerely that you would love to keep your kid or kids in their school but you are working with certain limitations. State modestly what you think you could manage and ask them to think about it and get back to you.

    They may come back with something in the middle.

    Raise a valuable child, and you can get this. Home school techniques will help with this.

    Cheerful, smart children anchor the class and help the teacher do his or her job; they are worth their weight in gold.

  58. Jewish Mother

    8/25/2005 at 3:44 pm

    So are positive-minded parents, who never complain or make trouble, and who come to meetings no matter how tired they are. Be that kind and you will get a break on tuition.

  59. grandmuffti

    8/25/2005 at 4:13 pm

    Does anyone else hope that the next thing JM comments will say ‘we call it The Aristocrats!’

  60. Jewish Mother

    8/25/2005 at 5:22 pm

    We are all aristocrats.

    With a professor pop, GM’s kids will have to be made to turn the light off at bed-time, and no fair reading under the covers with a flashlight.

  61. Jewish Mother

    8/25/2005 at 5:39 pm

    Seriously, if you spend all your money on your kids, never travel, never eat in restaurants, dress cheap, take a home made lunch, and get toys at school fairs, then you can make it work. You will lose all your fancy friends, but that is OK.

    I just got it through my head that I had had all the fun I needed already, and now the fun was giving to them. It was their turn now. I felt no pain at all. No regrets. I have more money now but I was happier then.

    I mean, people raised ME. So, I just passed it on. Used books and toys can be the best kind.

    The woman decides she needs nothing.
    The man decides to kick some a, and does. People allow that kind of thing in a man. Even more when they know he has a family. His eyes get a certain look and nobody plays with him.

    Nobody rich here.

  62. michael

    8/25/2005 at 6:05 pm

    So, basically, family life under the Jewish Mother Plan means never leaving the house to do anything except to go to work for 18 years? No traveling, no restaurants, no fancy friends? Oh well. I was considering that fatherhood thing somewhere down the line, but I think she’s made me change my mind.

  63. Jewish Mother

    8/25/2005 at 6:12 pm

    This is addressed to nobody in particular, just the universe in general: People might as well marry and have a kid. They have nothing to lose. They could not be in any more pain than they are, so what are they risking?

    There are divorced parents here at Jewlicious and they do not regret anything. They don’t see their children as burdens, mistakes or cost-centers. They would not trade their children for a loaded Mercedes with leather interior and uniformed chauffeur with their last name hand-painted on his visor.

    Your own are no trouble. It’s other people’s who are noisy or annoying.

  64. Jewish Mother

    8/25/2005 at 6:21 pm

    Michael, have all the fun in the world, now, and for the next few years. Soak it up. Tank up. Load up on it. Fill your hands. Then, later, when the father-phase comes, you will have had enough, you will feel content, you will not feel deprived. And then you will move on to the next kind of pleasures and joys. Pleasures and joys come in flavors, according to the time of life, and context. I have a lot of memories of the time before the kids, and they are seriously cool. I did not miss anything.

    I never say anything I have not personally lived through. That is the JM guarantee.

  65. Jobber

    8/25/2005 at 8:35 pm

    JM, some schoold do not budge, some do. But I have more than one school, so I am supposed to pay 21K per year. It is not doable.
    I do think that if you can afford it you should. When I was earning such that I never asked for scholarship this was fine w. me. But now that I am not earning more than a lower class hipster, it is too much of a strain.

    I don’t know what the answer is because I love the concept of a Yeshiva education for my children. But you don’t have the answer w/ living w/out any finer things in life. That means that keeping Shabbos is not doable all the time, some of the time, I too want to be a little in a resort area.

  66. Jewish Mother

    8/26/2005 at 9:45 am

    It is none of my business but it seems to me you have nothing to lose by having an extremely private confidential conversation with them saying, look, things are little different right now, what can you do for me. You may be amazed.

    Sometimes it is the wife who can figure out the angles, where to cut corners, so the family still has a fine Shabbos but the costs have been squeezed, behind the scenes.

    But all in a very quiet tone of voice, very positive. If you give something up and the wife can see that, she will be more willing to do this herself; it’s not just her.

    All the money in the world belongs to G-d; just ask for some more.

  67. esther

    8/26/2005 at 10:04 am

    Muffti made me laugh…I saw “The Aristocrats” on Wednesday, and basically haven’t been able to get that filthy joke out of my innocent head. I think in order to purge it from the brain, you have to actually tell it.

  68. Jobber

    8/26/2005 at 10:53 am

    JM, the school where they went for Grade school has been fair, they reduced by over 50% but the fancy high school, they only reduce by 15%. They say they don’t have funds.

    The problem from my perspective is those who call themselved orthodox and are in a position to provide jobs for orthodox people don’t.

    The schools themselves must look at which teachers their husbands are rich lawyers and doctors and give my wife the job, but not they turned her down twice now. Another Fancy orthodox company a well known retail chain, wouldn’t give me a job I was qualified for.
    THere are many examples like that I could tell you. The real problem is lack of concern w/ in the community. Then all of a sudden I noticed a couple of the rich folks in the shule staring at me. So as I scholarshipt taker, I wonder about that. Are they contemplating how much I am costing them, perhaps they are thinking that I have a secret cash business somewhere?
    It’s a horrible feeling to need scholarships like that especially when I used to contribute in one good year, $5000 to the very same fund.

    This is one of the reasons I no longer feel anything for being part of this community.

    Your ideas believe me things are cut as much as possible. We don’t eat meat ever for example and even fish, I told my wife I don’t need fresh salmon every Shabbos.

  69. Jobber

    8/26/2005 at 10:54 am

    Oops my HTML skills suck sorry.

  70. Jewish Mother

    8/26/2005 at 11:02 am

    Jobber, you are a hero for your loyalty to the Torah, and I pray things will be even better for you. You are very lucky, in ways you may not even know. G-d bless, and Good Shabbos. Hooray for you, and your adorable family.

    Don’t wonder what people are thinking; they just have indigestion; we can never know what people are thinking. Nobody is staring at you. I am staring at you, in awe and admiration at how well you are keeping things together. Just be proud of yourself and enjoy life. Wow. Am Yisroel Chai.

  71. Jobber

    8/26/2005 at 3:15 pm

    Appreciate the positive message JM, but am in need of a vacation from this. I am not the hero you think but thanks for the compliments. Have a nice Shabbos also.

  72. grandmuffti

    8/26/2005 at 3:21 pm

    Esther, you should tell it! Would make a nice post. The heading? Frum Girl, Very Dirty Joke.

  73. esther

    8/26/2005 at 4:32 pm

    Am I frum now? Hmm. Food for thought.

  74. Jobber

    8/27/2005 at 10:01 pm

    Esther the BT? New book on Shidduch tales of a BT?

  75. esther

    8/30/2005 at 11:32 am

    Hey Muffti, someone’s calling your girlfriend a Nazi…

  76. Chutzpah

    8/30/2005 at 11:51 am

    I’d be happy to tell any dirty joke you’d like but I wouldn’t want to risk Michael calling me weird.

  77. grandmuffti

    8/30/2005 at 4:23 pm

    Great. Usually they (i.e. his mom) calls Muffti’s girls all sorts of bad things but ‘Nazi’ is a first. Whatever. If you really think that writing a book on the psyche, culture and family of a reform Jewish man is comparable to the systematic attempt at genocide, you are a complete fucknut who needs help that’s, like, your opinion man.

  78. Deekaya

    8/31/2005 at 1:04 pm

    You know I am not amused. I don’t think its funny for some shiksa to have a book like this. How about “teaching Jewish men to respect Jewish women and give up the shiksas?” I mean there are plenty of hot Jewish chicks out there trust me.

  79. Thalia

    11/2/2009 at 3:53 pm

    I’m a “shiksa” and an ethnic one@ that. I feel guilty for dating jewish guy sometimes, because of all the hoopla concerning keeping the Tribe going. Don’t get me wrong
    i understand what the hoopla is about, i am in agreement that we should cultivate our own gardens before planting flowers in others.

    On the other hand, so many Jewish people i meet are secular, non practicing, Atheist, Laodiciean if you will. so how does getting involved with a non Jewish person change anything in that case? Maybe i jjust dont get it. I dont try to date Jewish men, i live in NYC and work can in Finance, what do u expect.

    Why is it ok for us minorities to exclude other people on the basis of maintaining tradition and purity. I don’t know i am just confused about the whole thing. that being said my bf is Jewish and he is very proud of his roots, whihc i love, he fondly remembers his Bar Mitzvah also, he speeks Yinglish sometimes, i can get with that.

    He is also non practicing, raised conservative, judge him as you will, but hes a pretty stellar guy. He will ALWAYS be Jewish, even if/when we break up and he moves on. I will ALWAYS be African american etc. but we can still pool together our experiences and learn from each other, im just saying, there’s alot of beauty in that too.

  80. François

    11/23/2009 at 5:12 pm

    I’m a Gentile, and I think it’s possible that jewish men have (on average) hairier chests than the males of any other group.

    My theory could be verified, by compiling data, and calculating statistics.

    The whole thing could be approached with the scientific method, but meanwhile, here are some convincing examples…

    Ed Asner, Ben Stiller, Steve Guttenberg, Paul Reiser, Paul Rudd, Michael Beck, Paul Stanley, Gene Simmons, Richard Simmons, James Callis, Mandy Patinkin, Adam Arkin, Corey Hart, Jason Alexander, Dwight Schulz, Lorne Greene, and the last but not the least, Harrison Ford!

  81. Rachel

    12/4/2010 at 1:32 pm

    I’ve dated alot of jewish guys and I have come to determine that just like any other group of people everyone is an individual. My grandfather was Jewish on his mothers side, but she hid it and married my irish great grand father after fleeing but still I’m blonde and blue eyed so I want to convert but everyone treats me like I am a shiksa and german or something. I was raised chirstain but I never felt it was right.I had a lady come around when I was little that showed me pictures and tapes and told me stories that spent time with relatives in camps so I was lucky in that respect and I will never forget it. I’ve been treated pretty bad just based on apperance and upbringing because my grandfather was a minister. I think its because I live in LA and love here is tough, maybe when I convert it will be different. I agree a manual is silly…but don’t judge all shiksa’s. If anyone should understand hate, it should be jewish people.

  82. François

    12/8/2010 at 11:56 am

    @ Rachel:

    I guess jews should understand what is having hate directed at you, yes. But in this case, it would seem to me like you are the victim of some kind of reverse racism, Rachel… which is a bit stupid, I think, since of course, for genetic reasons, lots of Ashkenazi Jews will have blond hair and blue eyes!

    What about Jews like, say, the late Paul Newman, or actress and former model Jerri Ryan (born Jerri Zimmerman)?

    German Jews will tend to look German, or at least, more so than Sephardic Jews from the Middle East will, right?

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