You don’t see the world as I see it.

As I said earlier, I’m not going to teach you an economics class.

As for not getting “numbers,” I don’t feel the need to get them. All that I could tell you, as an honest man, is that I swear to you that I read about this stuff in my textbooks. Not just an economic textbooks, but a business ethics textbook as well.

And could you really not afford your medical bills. A large percentage of Americans are satisfactoy covered. This is because of economics. They need to make a profit so they can’t over charge for their services.

And no, I didn’t say that a person who is about to die would have to wait “in line” behind routine appointments. But because it is a first come, first serve, both routine and more serious complications have to just WAIT when it should be a lot more efficient.

As for Clinton, I told you that I exaggerated “a little” about saying Hillary would turn us into the USSR. But her economics would be somewhat similar to Communist Russia, and over time this would have dramatic consequences.

Seriously Elon, I would even vote for you over Hillary for president any day.

Instead of providing anecdotal evidence, why not some numbers? The problem is, according to your logic, if i need open heart surgery done I may have to wait in line because the health care in UHC countries brings out all these people with colds and flus who need to be examined? You do realize that sick people don’t always go to hospitals right?

This is not to mention that I will take Health Care, even if I had to pay a small co-payment for visits and deal with a bit of bureacracy over my current situation whereas i can’t afford health care at all.

I’m not drooling over Hillary….i’m just shocked by your original claim that she would turn this country into soviet russia and your complete lack of ability to back up this contention.

Heck, it’s better than JDate.

familiesusa.or...

Then Google the topic a bit and you’ll see that my claim is correct. These days, not only do these companies advertise incessantly on tv, radio and the Internet, but they also have very sophisticated sales programs directed at doctors.

I am sorry if I have upset you for I didn’t mean to.

The Middle, marketing costs a lot more than R&D? That is far from true buddy. Not only is there a lot of R&D put into finding a right formula, but then there are years of R&D that pharmaceutical companies must do before their product enters the market. Then, consider all of the failed experiments and products in R&D. These are huge financial losses that we’re talking about. So each medicine R&D company is taking on a HUGE risk for attempting a worth while medicine. Then you have to balance these huge given R&D costs and the financial risk with a nice size reward if everything works out. You need to give these R&D companies an incentive to do what they do. It is not a given.

Once again, I’m not going to give you an economics lesson. But some of you just don’t seem to understand what I’m getting at.

You know how I mentioned how there are extremely long waits and lower quality health services to the patients. Just in case you can’t understand this as an economical case, then I’ll simplify it for you. There is a long wait because everybody gets “free” healthcare. If a person has a minor illness that us Americans would just stay at home for, a person with UHC may would go to the doctor since it is at no cost to him/her. Also, if a person has a more serious illness/injury, he will have to wait in line behind the people that really should’ve just stayed home.

It is lower quality because they need MORE doctors to attend to all of these people. In Britain it is around 5-6 years of college where in America doctors need to have 9-11 years. American doctors are therefore more educated, but this works for the British because 9-11 years of schooling would be too much of a deterrent to potential doctors. So the UHC countries exchange quality for quantity.

As for questioning my rationality for being a working class “Republican.”

First of all, I’m an independent, not a Republican.
Then I wish to say that it should not be irrational if one feels personally responsible for others. I think that the government is full of idiots. Republicans, Democrats, they’re all looking to promote their personal agenda. They always want to look good, which makes their decisions always for the short term, not the long term. Politicians keep the working class down. Conservatives make it a free for all without leveling the playing field while Democrats make the lower class feel more comfortable “down there.”

All that I’m saying is that if you truly care about the less fortunate, back it up with actions. Don’t rely on the government to fix it because they only fix one problem by creating another problem. Rely on yourself. Care for your fellow brother/sister on the left and right of you whether you are related or not. Make a lot of money in your professional career so that you have more potential to help others out. Just fix the problem yourself instead of relying on the “out of touch”(politicians) to solve the problem for you.

Elon, it IS irrational for UHC. Once again I apologize if you are a fan of this woman. Go right ahead. Just understand that I understand where you are coming from, but I still disagree.

Thanks guys – you made my day!

Yes most jobs in a decent company have health care, w/ a contributory part, but many jobs just dont, many type of temp jobs for example, when I was unemployed I did take a temp job at a major pharmaceutical company, but no health of course, I had to leave this when they wanted me to work on Sat. but a fellow temp there I am still in contact w/ is still there 2 years later, still no health. No many manage bec. the spouse has a job w/ health but there are still millions who don’t. In the so called richest country in the world, this should not be.

Conservative love to say that it’s bec. they are all on dope and booze and buy designer clothers and wear jewellry, but this is not accurate.

There is a book by Barbara Ehrenreich, a brilliant book called ‘Nickeled and Dimed’ wherein she went ‘undercover’, attempting to live as a either waitress, Wal mart worker, maid, etc… w/ the rent and food and all. It will open up the eyes of anyone to read this book. There are many copies of this on that famous auction site, no need to give them an extra plug eh?

The thing is, you can be plenty sick before you go to the emergency room. Even then, you are likely to get a huge bill and the hospital will do their best to get you to pay as much as they can.

43 million out of 300 million have no insurance whatsoever, and of the remaining Americans, many have inadequate insurance.

Is anyone concerned about this at all?

Chutzpah is wrong about her gung ho capitalism anyway, China is the true capitalist country. THere they have no provisions for sick days, holidays, social security. In the USA there is a concept of fair play, and preventing unbridled capitalism. You do have safety nets for people who have fallen through the cracks. You do have government programs to assist the non upper crust, those who use their connections to get their kids jobs and so forth. Bloomberg for example in NY instituted a program of taking bright minority teachers, people from the hoods, and grooming them to become assistant principals, a very successful program.

I am constantly amazed at the hard line people take on the less fortunate. It’s certainly not a Jewish basis. In Jewish thought we are deemed to have compassion for the less fortunate, not pound our chests w/ pride at our so called accomplishments.

Also, part of the problem is precisely what you state – the poor can get treatment. Well, not exactly. What happens is that the individual who goes to the hospital insured, will have his insurer pay, say $4000 on a $17,000 bill. The poor sod who comes in without insurance, regardless of his income level, will pay $17,000 for that bill. That $17,000 might be the amount covering an operation and a couple of days at the hospital. Why should it be so expensive? Beats me, but I’m guessing the uninsured person is the one subsidizing the insured one.

Canada’s system is far from perfect. However, ours is also far from perfect, and our shitty infant mortality rate and lower longevity than Canada’s are serious red flags, especially since we spend more on health care as a percentage of our GDP than Canadians.

The ideal system would combine elements of both systems. But at its foundation, everyone would be insured so they can go to the doctor and prevent what could become much more expensive treatments later.

Healthcare is not treated as another product in a free market, it is a very heavily regulated industry.

If Pharmaceutical companies are not allowed to make a healthy profit, what is their incentive for spending money on the research and development of new drugs which save lives? An award certificate? After they invent the drugs and patent them, why shouldn’t they be allowed to market them and profit? If they make a good profit they can then sell life saving drugs to countries that wouldn’t have the ways or means to invent them on their own.

In the USA, prescription drugs are marketed ‘directly’ to consumers using aggressive mass media techniques consisting of describing what the conditions are a drug is design to treat, the symptoms of the conditions on might have, and a suggestion if you feel any of these, go visit your doctor and ask if this drug could be for you. Classic drug/doctor business incest.

I have personal experience of grand parents making serial visits to doctors offices at the doctors request, not theirs, creating a suspicious demand for customers(services).

Is there any wonder Medicaid/Care and Medical Insurance is out-of-control. Medical services do not lend themselves to private profit making where the Medical Products/Service are SOLD to the patient, instead of the patient seeking them out when the need arises.

HMO run medical companies may be an exception to this where they have an incentive to reduce demand for health services. This is a good compromise IMO to fix the problem of selling of health services while retaining the customer quality and service of a privately run profit making business. Any gov’t paid for health services(free) need to be managed by profit making HMOs. If you want choice, then you would pay for it by buying your own private health insurance.