CK: Muffti didn’t say that jews weren’t involved; they just dind’t figure very prominently. The conclusion in the first article is a gigantic stretch and in the second article, Muffti doens’t disagree but doesn’t think this makes jews real front runners. (you are leaning rather heavily on the phrase ‘to one extent or another…)

As far as disproportiante representation, Muffti actually sees not so much evidence of that.

For instance, read this neat article about the Jews and the American Revolution. The conclusion may be a stretch, but it is still informative. Also informative is this article.

Jews involved in the abolitionist movement? Jews, like the rest of the nation were divided but most Jews were squarely in favor of abolition and some were even involved with John Brown to one extent or another. See this article.

Just sayin’ is all…

The post is great but the angle of the picture (and the fact that Aaron is really tall) makes me look like a dwarf.

Sarah

Thanks for the great post, and the great time at the Conference.

I met so many amazing people, and look forward to more Jewlicious events.

BTW, Muffti- maybe Laya exaggerated a little bit but maybe she just should have said:

“It’s no secret, and no coincidence that Jews have historically been at the forefront of almost every major movement of proactive social change. Be it socialism, the women’s movement or civil rights, somehow we are always disproportionately represented.”… in this century.

Its hard to come up with a revolution in the Western world in this century which Jews did not play a part in.

It’s no secret, and no coincidence that Jews have historically been at the forefront of almost every major movement of proactive social change.

Laya, come on. You know the Muffti loves you, but, really, this ‘read the jews into everything cool’ movement in general is just plain bad history. Let’s see:
1795-1750 BC Hammurabi’s reign produces the Hammurabi code, no help is noted to the jews (except for a few kooks who like to read the seven noachide laws into it and speculate about the relationship).

508/507 BCE: Cleisthenes ushers democracy into Greece. Not a bad social change all things considered.

1215, Magna Carta is signed. The jews are involved only insofar as there is a provision regarding usury.

1776, American Revolution, in which Jews play a next to marginal role. Similarly for the french revolution a few years later.

1865 – Slaves in America are freed. Jews play an absolutely minor role (though many did fight in the civil war – 9000 for the north apparently and but quite a few for the south as well) and are rather scantily represented in the abolitionist ranks beforehand.

Muffti isn’t saying we have a bad record. We have quite a good one (though perhaps ushering a century of communism into Russia wasn’t the greatest idea we could have come up with. oh well; 20/20 hindisight). But that’s a far cry from what you were claiming, Laya.

Glad J@TB was cool.

I’d like to remind everyone that the very word which defines this type of person, iconoclast, stems from Judaism. Abraham was the original iconoclast (the word means breaking statues, referring to the idols he smashed, according to midrash). And Jews have been following our forefather’s lead ever since!

Rock on!