Comments on: Jewlicious Trip – What is it? Day Three or something?

By: ck

ck — Fri, 26 May 2006 12:34:01 +0000

TM wrote: “Identifying with Orthodox Judaism means you do not identify with other Orthodox either.” Uh… no. It’s like Beit Hillel and Beit Shamai. I may hold by Beit Hillel but I still respect Beit Shamai and would never say they are wrong. I don’t believe in any stream of Judaism that doesn’t believe in Torah Mi’Sinai, allows driving on Shabbat and no longer follows kashrut – for starters. Other folks can believe whatever they like and live however they choose, but that’s me.

As for the reform kids, they jjust wanted to eat something they were familiar with – given that they eat McDonalds and treiff all the time back home.

By: BZ

BZ — Fri, 26 May 2006 12:05:59 +0000

One reason to be excited about McDonald’s in Israel is if you keep kosher and don’t get to eat at McDonald’s back home. (I can only assume that this is what CK meant with his reference to “reform kids”.) Of course, this euphoria is short-lived, once you realize that, kosher or not, McDonald’s still sucks.

By: themiddle

themiddle — Fri, 26 May 2006 03:41:14 +0000

Identifying with Orthodox Judaism means you do not identify with other Orthodox either. Oops, I meant to say if you’re the Chief rabbi of Israel and you have to deal with those pesky North American pseudo-Orthodox.

By: ck

ck — Fri, 26 May 2006 01:59:19 +0000

Sorry about the Reform kids thing. My position on Reform and Conservative Judaism is well documented – I am not a member of either stream because I don’t believe in them. I try to be as respectful as possible though, but I’m not going to pussyfoot around the issue and try to be all politically correct about it. I am straightforward and honest with the trip participants and I do not try to impose anything on them. Identifying with Orthodox Judaism means that you do not identify with the other streams. So far I haven’t insulted anyone and the participants seem cool with that. My co-madrich Shaanan is Conservative and his Dad is a Conservative Rabbi and we all get along fine with the participants and with each other. No need to feel bad for the “kids” they are having the time of their lives.

By: Leah

Leah — Thu, 25 May 2006 02:38:02 +0000

Sam-I agree. I read the “reform kids went to McDonalds” yesterday and didn’t comment. It really got under my skin. My last roommate was Conservative, but he was the one who brought home bacon cheeseburgers, not me. I feel for the reform kids on the trip if they are picking up on this vibe.

By: Sam

Sam — Wed, 24 May 2006 23:51:38 +0000

P.S. Thanks for blogging each day of your trip. I’m doing the same thing (though, after the fact) on my blog, and it’ll be interesting to compare what the various trips were like.

I went with the Reform movement’s trip — Kesher — and I wonder what the experience would have been like with another provider, for better or for worse.

By: Sam

Sam — Wed, 24 May 2006 23:49:35 +0000

CK, as a religious and Reform Jew, I’m also concerned about your specific mention that it was the Reform Jews who chose to eat at McDonald’s.

Was that a slight dig at Reform Jews, or were you just reporting what happened with the intention of leaving it up to the readers to interpret as they see fit?

By: Sam

Sam — Wed, 24 May 2006 23:47:43 +0000

I just got back from a Birthright trip, and I made it a point to eat at a McDonald’s and Burger King — once each. I wanted to compare them to their American counterparts and to see if kosher fast-food tasted different. McDonald’s burger tasted different but good, while Burger King’s burger tasted different but bad. BK’s portions were also obscenely huge compared to America, but this franchise was at a Jerusalem mall. The fries were pretty much the same.

Nothing wrong with seeing the difference out of curiosity.

By: Elon

Elon — Wed, 24 May 2006 20:46:09 +0000

TM-I didn’t mean to say with my relating of the “convert boy” bit that it was said in a demeaning way by any means.. i was trying to highlight the irony of the situation more jokingly, which always comes across well on the internet

By: JSinger

JSinger — Wed, 24 May 2006 20:17:36 +0000

I encountered one Taglit group led by a demented-looking Kahanist rabbi and rebbitzen (rabbi wearing a Kach necklace, no less) so YMMV.

What mall is that, by the way — Kiryat Shmona?

By: themiddle

themiddle — Wed, 24 May 2006 18:50:07 +0000

I have never called anyone “convert boy.”

Just sayin’.

By: taltman

taltman — Wed, 24 May 2006 18:43:48 +0000

Yay! Har Ben-Tal! I was there on the March of the Living trip that I went on three weeks ago! Did you guys get to walk through the underground bunkers? We also went on a jeep trek through the Golan, and visited Tel Dan nature/archeological reserve.

I’m telling all my friends: go do Birthright while its still around. It might not be around for much longer…

By: Elon

Elon — Wed, 24 May 2006 16:21:31 +0000

Harry,
Would you be surprised that 5 people out of my entire taglit group knew what teffillin were? What if i told you one was in rabbinical school, one was a rabbi’s daughter, and the another has been called “convert boy” by at least 2 Jewlicious contributors?
In that context it isn’t really shocking that one dude threw a massive fit over the food situation.

By: Shy Guy

Shy Guy — Wed, 24 May 2006 13:26:55 +0000

“illegal settler.”

Nebach.

By: ofri

ofri — Wed, 24 May 2006 13:01:01 +0000

My birthright trip with Hillel definitely involved some indoctrination. We met both an illegal settler and a well groomed Palestinian, among others. Serves me right for going on a “Peace, Politics, and Journalism” themed trip rather than good old regular indoctrination. Any birthright participant with half a brain should expect at least a little bit of bias. It’s not like the people who shell out shitloads of money have no agenda. Regardless of one’s politics, though, it’s a great experience and an amazing gift.

By: Harry

Harry — Wed, 24 May 2006 12:44:29 +0000

Elon, that’s shocking and upsetting. You’d think that someone getting a 100 percent free ride to Israel would be a bit more appreciative. Could be worse I guess, a lot of groups have to deal with messianic Jews.

By: Elon

Elon — Wed, 24 May 2006 10:38:25 +0000

Oh Taglit eating… One kid complained everyday that he had to eat kosher in the hotels and started screaming about how he was going to go nuts if he couldn’t “put a fucking piece of cheese one on piece of fucking meat”. When we found a Burger King somewhere along our way, he almost wet himself with glee…only to find it was a Kosher Burger King. Hashem is a stand up comedian and Israel is his stage.

By: michael

michael — Wed, 24 May 2006 10:04:40 +0000

Ben-David, you’re being paranoid. In general, Taglit trips have no “carefully groomed Pali spokespeople.” Sometimes they visit Druze villages, and they go to a fake Bedouin village in the Negev. But the Druze and the Bedouin aren’t Palestinians. Taglit groups don’t go to Umm al-Fahm or Nazareth. They certainly don’t go to Bethlehem or Ramallah.

There’s also no talk of “dreadful, bloodthirsty settler fundamentalists.” I don’t know where you get your information from. Taglit trips simply don’t go over the Green Line. If you want Taglit groups to see the “settler” viewpoint, then you can try to arrange with a Birthright provider a meeting not over the Green Line.

But honestly. It’s a fun ten day trip to increase foreign Jews’ identification with Israel, and to get them to date/marry/shtup other Jews. It’s not an indoctrination program for Greater Israel, nor is it an indoctrination program for pre-’67 Israel. It’s a fucking tour. It’s not the place for your personal crusade to justify the location of your home. There are plenty of other avenues for that, like (sigh) our website.

By: Ben-David

Ben-David — Wed, 24 May 2006 09:49:38 +0000

I’ll be happy to host your group, and show them the strategic importance of where I live, how it overlooks the Tel-Aviv metro area and the airport – underscored by anectodes about fedayeen attacks that led up to the 1967 war, battles raged at that time, and the stream of suicide bombers (including the notorious “Mehandes”) who’ve come from nearby villages since then…

… except that MY strategically important mountaintop is not officially sanctioned by PC thought – even though it was liberated in the same war as the Golan, and is much more centrally located.

It’s in Samaria. And Taglit doesn’t let its precious charges actually visit over the Green Line, or talk to any of those dreadful, bloodthirsty settler fundamentalists – just carefully groomed Pali spokespeople.

By: Harry

Harry — Wed, 24 May 2006 07:06:01 +0000

I agree with Michael, who comes to Israel to eat McDonalds? Although I did learn that McDonalds in Israel is one of the only places that still deep fries their apple pies. But I doubt that’s what they ate there. I want my tax money back!