Popular culture rules. The problem for religious families is how to protect their children from it.

I recall a bit of a shock in my first year in a secular college seeing an old yeshiva school mate sitting w/ a pretty non Jewish coed in the sun, rubbing her legs. Out there in the open. Later I heard that they were having full intimate relations. Him wearing his Yarmulka and going to minyans at all times.

The same was happening w/ the other religious guys on campus that I knew from HS. Except me of course. I wasn’t the ladies man in those days.

But you do have many Jewish kids who believe/get off on following Torah morality in this context, SHomer Negiah and all that.

But yes, for the majority of people they think that SN is crazy and furthermore see nothing wrong in displaying their perfect bodies.

He’s right about this, too: topless chicks make you stupid.

What does this have to do with some girls flashing and getting drunk and laid a lot? Nothing. As usually, Boteach weaves a thin thread between a bunch of vague abstract ideals and then calls it a day. Jpost goes in for a lot flack these days, but Muffti can’t think of any greater shame on their record than the fact that they let this guy publish half baked articles full of trivialities, poorly connected non-sequitors, random bits of data that are decontextualized and hence virtually meaningless in the context of his argument. If he wants to know about college, he should probably go and see hwat life is like rather than go to spring break, the period of time where students are generally AWAY from college and trying to get relief from teh stress of college (midterms are around then after all).

Universities aren’t there to tell you how to act, and certainly not to tell you how to act while you are on vacation. Muffti’s experiences at several universities at various levels of education can confirm to some small degree that you can find a wide distribution of types no matter where you go: smart, slutty, fun, prudish, mysogynistic, fruity…you pick it, you’ll find it. and sure enough, boteach picked a group and found it.

I’d think most people with even a basic idea of Judaism know it’s the mother that counts, even if they wouldn’t use a word like “halachic” to explain it.

Adam: University of Chicago, class of 2005. There were “spring break” types, but they were the oppressed minority, whereas the majority’s drinking/promiscuity was done more tastefully, at pseudoacademically hipster apartment parties rather than frat parties. This means I can’t comment on how accurate Charlotte Simmons-type depictions are, but can say that Boteachean “immorality” and serious intellectual thought are by no means mutually exclusive.

Going wild in college is a good thing, because then when you are 50 you can look back and remember the fun you used to have that you probably aren’t having anymore.

I’ve heard about plenty of girls gone wild in Israel while away on their year in Seminary.

Youth is for being youthful…and if that includes sex, drugs and rock & roll…I say “Toga”!

It is truly a testament to the low American intelligence level and culture that this pile of nothing has a TV show now in its second or third year.

I have seen a couple of episodes and was totally unimpressed and bored, with his attempts at integrity and emphathy.

The worst aspect of this person is his Rabbinical attire.

Oh yeah listen to how he luciously describes the young babes in bikinis, as if they all dress to that extent. Some do, but most wear a more modest bathing suit.

So he looks, which he is not supposed to do, and then he writes about it, as if his words, are going to change society!

Or is this an Averiah lishmah?

I am sorry for his children and the effect his carrying on will have on them.

At the very least one can learn some important things here.

How much success and greed must you have?

It is important to shut down the BS more often than less often.

Let the future Mr. Roth be–it’s Sara’s religion that makes for Jewish babies

POLJ, “WE” didn’t “GIVE” him anything. He took it. He says what he likes in the forums he creates, to an audience ready to hear him. G-d bless America, where controversy gives you ratings and detractors are just fuel for the fire. Hell, YOU could have a show on TLC given the right angle.

Let’s face it – people who WANT to learn, WILL. Kids who don’t care to be there, will make it a place for goofing off on mom and dads tab. Human nature is what it is, culture sets the boundries.

Thousands of students are graduating in fields of study that they never use in employment or continue to study in academia.

In the US, college is an institution that everyone is expected to go through. Actually learning anything in the process is quite auxiliary.

And the one who believes that the thousands of colleges across the US are solely noble institutions of higher learning, and not out to make a profit, are naive.

(Great post by the way)

1.) Err… Sara you ignorant slut! ‘Still with the guy I hooked up with on Birthright’? And ‘he’s not really Jewish’? This is not how the game is supposed to be played. That’s a 20 yard penalty for personal foul!

2.) And just knowing this …’which makes similar rants [by comparison] in places like National Review look brilliant’? Just personally distasteful to the extreme.

3.) Me, I want to know exactly when the hell this happened: ‘I remember college well, as it was quite recent for me, and it’s true that at the University of Chicago, a bikini was considered far, far too modest.’ I can only recall the quiet math & chem majors with glasses, long skirts & sweaters.

4.) And when I was in University just a mere 110 years ago, it was pretty much more of the same. Only more so. And BTW, some of the oldest known songs in the English language are yes, old college drinking songs dating from the Middle Ages. (Some of the most dedicated & studious drunks I knew way back then were Seminary students too). Down through the years at least they’ve cleaned up the violence & rioting a bit at the U. The big problem comes in with the huge issue of a truly ‘post literate’ society, and there’s not much any one college can do about that. That’s cultural.

5.) I wholeheartedly agree with Nathan’s sentiment about Hooters too. Pretty wholesome fare compared to some obvious alternatives. Cheers, ‘VJ’

Schools these days seem far too interested in athletics, new food services, making money, etc… than actually changing the lives of the kids they educate.

But then again, I guess that proves your point, schools are reflecting the abusive excessively money grubbing society as a whole.

I also do not think Hooters is a hallmark of depravity. It is Denny’s at best and I am certain there are plenty of eastern european hookers in Israel that will now have a safer place to work.

By the way, he does make some valid points.

I think that it’s also hard to dispute that there is a cultural evolution going on in some places where the interaction between the two sexes is, uh, unhealthy at best. I don’t think he exaggerates much. It certainly depends on your campus and circle of people, but there are plenty of people behaving exactly as he says.

Placing the blame at the feet of the university, however, is misguided since they are not the ones who dictate the prevailing culture.