Comments on: As British Army leaves Northern Ireland, major lessons can be learned http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/ It's a Jewish Blog! Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:17:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: contrarian http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-1321539 contrarian Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:20:22 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-1321539 I've never read so much nonesense in my life. I still vividly remember the victory celebrations when the British agreed to self-determination and a move away from downing street. The IRA didn't give up their guns until the british agreed to devolution..i.e. Northern Ireland is now a step further away from downing street and a step closer to a united ireland. I won't embarass you by explaining how that is a victory for the IRA. The resurgence of RIRA is because of impatience with the process and implementation of the good friday agreement, but the key thing to remember here is that re-unification will happen through the ballot box now. Not through the bullet. I’ve never read so much nonesense in my life.

I still vividly remember the victory celebrations when the British agreed to self-determination and a move away from downing street.

The IRA didn’t give up their guns until the british agreed to devolution..i.e. Northern Ireland is now a step further away from downing street and a step closer to a united ireland.

I won’t embarass you by explaining how that is a victory for the IRA.

The resurgence of RIRA is because of impatience with the process and implementation of the good friday agreement, but the key thing to remember here is that re-unification will happen through the ballot box now. Not through the bullet.

]]> By: themiddle http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-1319909 themiddle Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:17:34 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-1319909 So much of what's in the Guardian is bullshit. Especially their coverage of the Middle East Conflict. ;) So much of what’s in the Guardian is bullshit. Especially their coverage of the Middle East Conflict. ;)

]]> By: kazuya http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-1319880 kazuya Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:03:24 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-1319880 What lucas leivia said. This article is baseless nonsense. What lucas leivia said. This article is baseless nonsense.

]]> By: Domingo http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-1268684 Domingo Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:29:45 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-1268684 Well, though the Provisional IRA did lay down arms and chose to establish a peaceful method to achieving a United Ireland... The CIRA and RIRA have resurged, and their attacks, though right now looked down upon by both sides, if they continue, it could lead to Loyalist retaliation. Then all bets are off on the Unity Government in N. Ireland. Well, though the Provisional IRA did lay down arms and chose to establish a peaceful method to achieving a United Ireland… The CIRA and RIRA have resurged, and their attacks, though right now looked down upon by both sides, if they continue, it could lead to Loyalist retaliation. Then all bets are off on the Unity Government in N. Ireland.

]]> By: froylein http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-997681 froylein Mon, 04 Aug 2008 22:16:00 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-997681 Hmmm, wearing green, having shamrock grow on your property and speaking Gaelic being subject to death penalty, being deliberately deprived of nutrition during the Great Famine, not being permitted to one's own government or casting votes in the elections to the Commons, still not being permitted to being either spouse to the Sovereign and / or becoming PM due to being Roman Catholic, considerably higher unemployment rates among Catholics in Belfast encouraged by policies that condone of discrimation against Catholics based on religious adherence,... Yeah, the Irish must have loved just that. Hmmm, wearing green, having shamrock grow on your property and speaking Gaelic being subject to death penalty, being deliberately deprived of nutrition during the Great Famine, not being permitted to one’s own government or casting votes in the elections to the Commons, still not being permitted to being either spouse to the Sovereign and / or becoming PM due to being Roman Catholic, considerably higher unemployment rates among Catholics in Belfast encouraged by policies that condone of discrimation against Catholics based on religious adherence,…

Yeah, the Irish must have loved just that.

]]> By: lucas leivia http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-997465 lucas leivia Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:23:17 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-997465 Well you crudely missed the point of the whole thing to suit your own machiavellian aspirations to wage ruthless war against the palestinians. The IRA had the capacity to continue a low intensity geurilla war indefinitely, this was recognised by the british army's own intel reports. another report which was leaked after the war stated that the army could not win against the ira. Infact our government held a similar line of no negotiating with terrorists until tehy planted several bombs in england which ripped through city centre and caused billions of pounds worth of damage. They done this with impunuty, the people responsible are still at large and capable of doing it again. The scary thing is they gave warnings for all the bombs to allow civillians to be evacuated and if they hadnt thousands of people, including many wealthy financiers and journalists would have been killed. They could have caused the collapse of one of the biggest financial centres in the world. We got smart, we addressed the problems which were causing people to hate us with such intensity... and we have done nothing to them compared to the horrendous evil your beligerent nation has inflicted on palestinians. violence begets violence. good luck with the whole peace thing but i can already see israel is doomed with people like you on the loose. actually i dont mean that i look forward to the day when israel has to go crawling on its hands and knees to beg forgiveness for all the crimes they have committed in the past, it might not happen in my lifetime but it will happen as it always does where your people are concerned Well you crudely missed the point of the whole thing to suit your own machiavellian aspirations to wage ruthless war against the palestinians. The IRA had the capacity to continue a low intensity geurilla war indefinitely, this was recognised by the british army’s own intel reports. another report which was leaked after the war stated that the army could not win against the ira. Infact our government held a similar line of no negotiating with terrorists until tehy planted several bombs in england which ripped through city centre and caused billions of pounds worth of damage. They done this with impunuty, the people responsible are still at large and capable of doing it again. The scary thing is they gave warnings for all the bombs to allow civillians to be evacuated and if they hadnt thousands of people, including many wealthy financiers and journalists would have been killed. They could have caused the collapse of one of the biggest financial centres in the world.

We got smart, we addressed the problems which were causing people to hate us with such intensity… and we have done nothing to them compared to the horrendous evil your beligerent nation has inflicted on palestinians. violence begets violence. good luck with the whole peace thing but i can already see israel is doomed with people like you on the loose. actually i dont mean that i look forward to the day when israel has to go crawling on its hands and knees to beg forgiveness for all the crimes they have committed in the past, it might not happen in my lifetime but it will happen as it always does where your people are concerned

]]> By: ramon marcos http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-661947 ramon marcos Fri, 10 Aug 2007 04:19:30 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-661947 It's not a viable comparison because Bono isn't either a Jew or Muslim. Is that sarcastic? Think about it. No matter how one compares the logistical, religious or historical issues it's still apples and oranges to me. Or should I say pomegrantes and Guinness? It’s not a viable comparison because Bono isn’t either a Jew or Muslim.

Is that sarcastic? Think about it. No matter how one compares the logistical, religious or historical issues it’s still apples and oranges to me. Or should I say pomegrantes and Guinness?

]]> By: Kay http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-661931 Kay Fri, 10 Aug 2007 03:26:41 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-661931 ck: That totally doesn't come across. As a graphic designer I give it a thumbs down. ck: That totally doesn’t come across.

As a graphic designer I give it a thumbs down.

]]> By: avi http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-659812 avi Mon, 06 Aug 2007 01:46:43 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-659812 The brits came in officially as a neutral force and of course there was collaboration between some brits and the prods. The RUC had many officers who collaborated with the prod paramilitaries. However if the Brits didn't enter the Prods woulsd have wiped out the IRA and MANY innocent Catholics. To say that the IRA would have defeated the prod paramilitaries is indeed laughable. The brits came in officially as a neutral force and of course there was collaboration between some brits and the prods. The RUC had many officers who collaborated with the prod paramilitaries. However if the Brits didn’t enter the Prods woulsd have wiped out the IRA and MANY innocent Catholics. To say that the IRA would have defeated the prod paramilitaries is indeed laughable.

]]> By: Kram http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-659590 Kram Sun, 05 Aug 2007 14:40:41 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-659590 no i am not missing the point. the british forces were far from a peacekeeping force. ive seen videos were there was a riot between the 2 sides and the british army would march in with their backs to the protestants. for example during internment they arrested thousands of Catholics and not a single protestant, depite the fact that protestant groups such as the UDA/UVF were repsonsible for most of the killings at the time. also you are missing the point that it was NOT a religious war. though principally the opposing sides were divided along religious lines, this was not always the case. there were many nationalist protestants. the British army only went in after the Irish Defence Forces massed on the border and threatened to take control of Derry City. In 1970 the british troops still allowed the unionist police force and thugs to attack Catholic areas (Short Strand anyone?). At this time the IRA split into Provisionals and Officials. The Provisionals became possibly the best guerrilla army in the world. Had the british army not been there the IRA would have wiped out the UVF/UDA/LVF etc in a matter of weeks. Had the british army been a neutral peace keeping force then the violence could have stopped there and then. instead it took sides with the UVF/UDA and was seen as an extension of the armed wing of unionism. Large numbers of British army members were found to be colluding and helping these loyalist death squads (who only attacked innocent catholics) and to suggest they were a neutral force is almost laughable no i am not missing the point. the british forces were far from a peacekeeping force. ive seen videos were there was a riot between the 2 sides and the british army would march in with their backs to the protestants. for example during internment they arrested thousands of Catholics and not a single protestant, depite the fact that protestant groups such as the UDA/UVF were repsonsible for most of the killings at the time. also you are missing the point that it was NOT a religious war. though principally the opposing sides were divided along religious lines, this was not always the case. there were many nationalist protestants.

the British army only went in after the Irish Defence Forces massed on the border and threatened to take control of Derry City. In 1970 the british troops still allowed the unionist police force and thugs to attack Catholic areas (Short Strand anyone?). At this time the IRA split into Provisionals and Officials. The Provisionals became possibly the best guerrilla army in the world. Had the british army not been there the IRA would have wiped out the UVF/UDA/LVF etc in a matter of weeks.

Had the british army been a neutral peace keeping force then the violence could have stopped there and then. instead it took sides with the UVF/UDA and was seen as an extension of the armed wing of unionism. Large numbers of British army members were found to be colluding and helping these loyalist death squads (who only attacked innocent catholics) and to suggest they were a neutral force is almost laughable

]]> By: avi http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-659291 avi Sun, 05 Aug 2007 02:18:22 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-659291 Kram, while iti s true htat the IRA and its offshoots were effective, you miss a major point. When the Troubles began, the British army entered as a peacekeeping force between the Catholics and Prods. The Prods were kicking the shit out of the Catholics and the Brits came to protect the catholics. Only later did the IRAstart fighting the british forces. If the British army had not entered the Prods would have won. Kram,
while iti s true htat the IRA and its offshoots were effective, you miss a major point.
When the Troubles began, the British army entered as a peacekeeping force between the Catholics and Prods. The Prods were kicking the shit out of the Catholics and the Brits came to protect the catholics.
Only later did the IRAstart fighting the british forces. If the British army had not entered the Prods would have won.

]]> By: Kram http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-659274 Kram Sun, 05 Aug 2007 01:19:47 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-659274 A number of stupid comments here. firstly the IRA remained up until 2005 one of the most vicous and effective guerrilla armies of all time. It proved in 1997 that it still had the capacity to inflict huge blows to the british Army. the british army also bean to show that it could hit back. In all it ended in a stalemate, the british army could not defeat the IRA while the IRA could not force a british withdrawal. now heres the thing, if the british won (as many of them seem to claim) why are ex-IRA members now running Northern Ireland? the reason is that in 1998 the British made a huge compromise with the IRA by giving up their unilateral claim of sovereignty on Northern Ireland. this basically guarantees that Northern Ireland will be handed back with the growing Nationalist population and dwindling Unionist one. At best it was a draw for the british, at worst a defeat A number of stupid comments here. firstly the IRA remained up until 2005 one of the most vicous and effective guerrilla armies of all time. It proved in 1997 that it still had the capacity to inflict huge blows to the british Army. the british army also bean to show that it could hit back. In all it ended in a stalemate, the british army could not defeat the IRA while the IRA could not force a british withdrawal.

now heres the thing, if the british won (as many of them seem to claim) why are ex-IRA members now running Northern Ireland? the reason is that in 1998 the British made a huge compromise with the IRA by giving up their unilateral claim of sovereignty on Northern Ireland. this basically guarantees that Northern Ireland will be handed back with the growing Nationalist population and dwindling Unionist one.

At best it was a draw for the british,
at worst a defeat

]]> By: xisnotx http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-658859 xisnotx Sat, 04 Aug 2007 11:47:02 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-658859 I dont see how you'd extrapolate from what I wrote that I suport terror. What I did was list the baseline palestinian demand. With or without violence, I don't see Israel giving up more than 90% of West Bank land. So I don't agree w/ Rabbi Jonah' statement that if they give terror, the Palestinians can get what they want. I dont see how you’d extrapolate from what I wrote that I suport terror. What I did was list the baseline palestinian demand. With or without violence, I don’t see Israel giving up more than 90% of West Bank land. So I don’t agree w/ Rabbi Jonah’ statement that if they give terror, the Palestinians can get what they want.

]]> By: themiddle http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-658510 themiddle Fri, 03 Aug 2007 17:50:23 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-658510 So you approve of terror as a form of fighting, xisnotx? Even if you do, Israel offered to do almost exactly what you write in 2000 and 2001 and the Palestinian violence increased. So the answer to your question is "no." So you approve of terror as a form of fighting, xisnotx?

Even if you do, Israel offered to do almost exactly what you write in 2000 and 2001 and the Palestinian violence increased. So the answer to your question is “no.”

]]> By: xisnotx http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-658509 xisnotx Fri, 03 Aug 2007 17:43:05 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-658509 "But the Palestinians can get what they want when they stop terror." yeah? Israel will withdraw to the Green Line and dismantle the settlements if the Palestinians would just stop the violence? “But the Palestinians can get what they want when they stop terror.”

yeah? Israel will withdraw to the Green Line and dismantle the settlements if the Palestinians would just stop the violence?

]]> By: ck http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-657735 ck Thu, 02 Aug 2007 07:48:41 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-657735 Kay: The gun is upside down because it is being held aloft by a hand. Kay: The gun is upside down because it is being held aloft by a hand.

]]> By: Elena http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-657689 Elena Thu, 02 Aug 2007 05:48:17 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-657689 There is no Palestine and most of the Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians" immigrated to Israel after it was re-founded. They should Israel because it's not theris and never was. There is no Palestine and most of the Arabs who call themselves “Palestinians” immigrated to Israel after it was re-founded. They should Israel because it’s not theris and never was.

]]> By: Kay http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-657527 Kay Wed, 01 Aug 2007 23:50:43 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-657527 The gun on the t-shirt is upside-down. The gun on the t-shirt is upside-down.

]]> By: DK http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-657481 DK Wed, 01 Aug 2007 21:37:17 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-657481 Well, let's look at what each side wants. The IRA wanted the British out of Ireland. The Palestinians want the Israelis out of Palestine. The problem is that many Palestinians define Palestine as encompassing all of Israel. Well, let’s look at what each side wants. The IRA wanted the British out of Ireland. The Palestinians want the Israelis out of Palestine.

The problem is that many Palestinians define Palestine as encompassing all of Israel.

]]> By: Tom Morrissey http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/07/as-british-army-leaves-northern-ireland-major-lessons-can-be-learned/#comment-657360 Tom Morrissey Wed, 01 Aug 2007 14:28:26 +0000 http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3698#comment-657360 If the British example is fully followed, Israel will negotiate a political settlement with Fatah and Hamas in tandem with security measures, and the negotiations will include as partners neighboring Arab states. If the British example is fully followed, Israel will negotiate a political settlement with Fatah and Hamas in tandem with security measures, and the negotiations will include as partners neighboring Arab states.

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