Comments on: Post Tisha B’Av ramblings

By: Tisha B’Av Post « The New Centrist

Tisha B’Av Post « The New Centrist — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:50:33 +0000

[...] Tuesday, July 24th, 2007 in Uncategorized [Hat tip to Rabbi Yonah @ Jewlicious] Get out of bed, cry out in the night; pour out your heart like water before the face of Hashem…(Eicha 2:19)Todays is a national day of mourning observed for nearly 2000 years on the anniversary of the destruction of the Temples in Jerusalem. Basically, both Temples were destroyed because of human error. There was no computer malfunction. There were no acts of “god”. There was no overloaded control systems, and no faulty wiring.While human nature is to always blame others when things go wrong – the Jewish way of remembering the human error which destroyed the Temples is to accept responsibility for what happened. And I don’t mean in the “I take full responsibility for what happened” way that public figures say when they are caught cheating, which almost sounds like they are sorry, but they are not. No, we actually accepted responsibility for the errors, established a day of mourning and fasting, and seek atonement even today.And while much attention is rightly focused on the destroyed city of Jerusalem and other national tragedies over the last 200 centuries, the only way to go about fixing the errors is with corrective action today and in the future. The past human errors cannot be erased. Only future human error can be avoided. The human error which caused the hard drive to crash and meltdown, the security breach, the data loss, and the system malfunction, can be fixed with a simple do-it-yourself patch, and software upgrade.The patch is Ahavas Yisroel aka love your fellow Jew i.e. network sharing and open sourcing , and the the upgrade is available by free download. Simply pour out year heart like water before God about so much trouble in the world – your own, your peoples, the world’s – and the software will be installed automatically.Also see “Post-Tisha B’Av Ramblings.” [...]

By: amechad

amechad — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:15:16 +0000

Yonah – I sure hope you aren’t promoting apartheid in mentioning the URJ’s correct decision (I tend to strongly disagree w/ them as liberalism is not Judaism) in speaking out against limiting land sales to Jews. Imagine not being able to buy land in America, a Christian country (don’t believe me? Why is Christmas a national holiday but not Yom Kippur or the end of Ramadan?) or a house in California because you aren’t Christian. Wrong? Well, also wrong in Israel when non-Jews can’t buy land. (And don’t lecture me, I live in Israel, I want a Jewish demographic majority, but I’m not willing to accept this by discriminatory policies that violate int’l law. Israel is unjustly criticized enough, don’t give Israel’s critics legitimate reasons to complain!)

By: Eitan

Eitan — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:38:10 +0000

Adam-

-I agree with most of what you said.

-”Why can’t those people go through a process where they learn about Judaism to the point that they will be converted by a Jewish Court?”

Because to convert it’s not enough to ‘learn.’ You actually have to commit to living according to the Torah (following the mitzvoth), and most of these people are not willing to do that. Even for those that are the technical process of conversion in the Israeli bureaucracy is enough of an obstacle to scare many away (and I’m NOT referring to the halachically necessary difficulties, like being turned away several times, a certain amount of time/practice keeping mitzvoth, etc.).

By: Adam Hyman

Adam Hyman — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:20:42 +0000

Thank God there are almost 200 different countries in the world. The countries are very diverse based on every criteria from social and political insitutions, to education, food, culture.

Israel is the only Jewish country and institutions should be run in compliance with Judaism. Israel’s differences helps contribute to the overall diversity of the world.

One question certainly needs a lot of thought: Should Israel remain a Jewish country? And if so what does that mean?

Just as Jews of long ago and of today make sacrifices, which keeps them Jewish, so Israel has to do difficult things. I feel terrible that some people can’t prove their Jewishness and can’t marry a Jew in Israel. It really feel for them. Yet, I also understand that that bearing that pain and dealing with those issues are necessary if we wish to behave according to Judaism.

Why can’t those people go through a process where they learn about Judaism to the point that they will be converted by a Jewish Court?

By: Rabbi Yonah

Rabbi Yonah — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:39:04 +0000

Even American Jews can and have been subjected to extremely rigorous tests to see if they can prove they are Jewish.

While in theory having the Rabbinical courts oversee everything might be good – its not working. Not even close.

Religious courts might need to become divorced from the civic society for their to be peace between secular and religious Jews, and Jews of various lineage and backgrounds.

By: tzipi

tzipi — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:13:55 +0000

nathan – there is more to being married in the eyes of the government than shared money, in the US but also in Israel, as far as I know. There are rights that spouses get, rights of the children, etc.

By: nathan

nathan — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:39:09 +0000

Do you think ‘the state’ has an interest in marriage? I always wonder this. If the answer is no then you have to arrive at the conclusion that marriage only serves a religious function and therefore should be up to the leaders of the particular faith. If not, and people want to contractually join, let them contractually join. I don’t know Israeli law well enough, but if I drew up a contract in NJ that shared half of the operating expenses and equity of my home, shared half the contents of my bank account (both something I would never do…) it would be unenforceable. All without the need for loaded terminology and lots of arguments.

I find it hard to imagine some left minded person hasn’t made templates like this available to the good non-religious people of Israel – they have here in NJ.

Oh and I also wonder how I would ever prove I was Jewish. I have a copy of my naming certificate and a bunch of other papers, but so may of them could be forged in a heart beat. I guess as an American knowing Hebrew and paying annual dues might count…HAHAHA