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	<title>Comments on: Some people think Yigal Amir should go free</title>
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		<title>By: Shy Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/10/some-people-think-yigal-amir-should-go-free/comment-page-2/#comment-748684</link>
		<dc:creator>Shy Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3859#comment-748684</guid>
		<description>Is that you, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=%22ariel+Sokolovsky%22&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;Ariel&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;? Or do you prefer Noah Smith nowdays?

Back on topic:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;As you are obviously not aware &quot;Ein Shaliach Li’dvar Aveirah.&quot; doesn’t usually apply to military orders&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
No, I&#039;m not aware. I&#039;m a grosse Am Ha&#039;Aretz. Site your source.
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;.... since soldiers are trained and drilled to obey orders and can be punished or even executed (in war time) for refusing to obey order.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
This doesn&#039;t nullify &quot;Ein Shaliach&quot;. In a best case scenario, this would be &quot;Anus Rachmana Patrei.&quot;

This is all beside the fact that Rabin received no &quot;Hatra&#039;ah&quot; nor was he ever tried, let alone in front of a Halachic Bet Din.
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;As far as my blog you are clearly not qualified to judge its merits if you can so confidently invoke ein shliach ledvar aveira in regards to military orders. The blog has a Chareidi dayan in Yerushalaim as the main posek&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yes, you repeat that ad nauseum everywhere you post. People wouldn&#039;t buy chickens with an anonymous hechsher but are expected to bed down with Gilui Arayot under such dubious claims to anonymity.
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;everything I write in it in regards to halacha is based on the words of our sages and even the Avi Shafran spokesman of the Agudat Israel of America of all people agreed in a newspaper interview that what I promote is permitted albeit not normative.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
You left out what Rabbi Shafran first had to say about you, and I quote:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;He should call Agudah’s volunteer services department and we’ll help him get a life.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

How convenient to forget his introductory words. But who can blame you?!

In any case, Shafran&#039;s full quote is:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;While conceding that the practice is not a sin, Rabbi Shafran said &quot;many things are permitted but not engaged in. This is not anything that is normative in the Jewish world. The definition of a marriage is between a man and one wife, like the first man and his wife.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

In any case, this has been well covered by such fascinating and heileger blogs as FailedMessiah, etc.
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;As far as it being lame or nor kol haposel be mumo posel just look at your very own screen name &#039;shy guy&#039; how lame can that be?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;m lovin&#039; it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is that you, <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=%22ariel+Sokolovsky%22" rel="nofollow"><b>Ariel</b></a>? Or do you prefer Noah Smith nowdays?</p>
<p>Back on topic:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>As you are obviously not aware &#8220;Ein Shaliach Li’dvar Aveirah.&#8221; doesn’t usually apply to military orders</i></p></blockquote>
<p>No, I&#8217;m not aware. I&#8217;m a grosse Am Ha&#8217;Aretz. Site your source.</p>
<blockquote><p><i>&#8230;. since soldiers are trained and drilled to obey orders and can be punished or even executed (in war time) for refusing to obey order.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t nullify &#8220;Ein Shaliach&#8221;. In a best case scenario, this would be &#8220;Anus Rachmana Patrei.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is all beside the fact that Rabin received no &#8220;Hatra&#8217;ah&#8221; nor was he ever tried, let alone in front of a Halachic Bet Din.</p>
<blockquote><p><i>As far as my blog you are clearly not qualified to judge its merits if you can so confidently invoke ein shliach ledvar aveira in regards to military orders. The blog has a Chareidi dayan in Yerushalaim as the main posek</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, you repeat that ad nauseum everywhere you post. People wouldn&#8217;t buy chickens with an anonymous hechsher but are expected to bed down with Gilui Arayot under such dubious claims to anonymity.</p>
<blockquote><p><i>everything I write in it in regards to halacha is based on the words of our sages and even the Avi Shafran spokesman of the Agudat Israel of America of all people agreed in a newspaper interview that what I promote is permitted albeit not normative.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>You left out what Rabbi Shafran first had to say about you, and I quote:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;He should call Agudah’s volunteer services department and we’ll help him get a life.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>How convenient to forget his introductory words. But who can blame you?!</p>
<p>In any case, Shafran&#8217;s full quote is:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;While conceding that the practice is not a sin, Rabbi Shafran said &#8220;many things are permitted but not engaged in. This is not anything that is normative in the Jewish world. The definition of a marriage is between a man and one wife, like the first man and his wife.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>In any case, this has been well covered by such fascinating and heileger blogs as FailedMessiah, etc.</p>
<blockquote><p><i>As far as it being lame or nor kol haposel be mumo posel just look at your very own screen name &#8217;shy guy&#8217; how lame can that be?</i></p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m lovin&#8217; it!</p>
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		<title>By: Pilegesh.org</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/10/some-people-think-yigal-amir-should-go-free/comment-page-2/#comment-748460</link>
		<dc:creator>Pilegesh.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3859#comment-748460</guid>
		<description>B&quot;H
Dear Shy guy.
As you are obviously not aware “Ein Shaliach Li’dvar Aveirah.” doesn&#039;t usually apply to military orders since soldiers are trained and drilled to obey orders and can be punished or even executed (in war time) for refusing to obey order. 
“Ein Shaliach Li’dvar Aveirah&quot; however doesn&#039;t apply to the case of Rabin himself following the order of Ben Gurion to murder their fellow Jews on Altalena for political gain because others refused to obey this order, but he volunteered of his own free will.
As far as my blog you are clearly not qualified to judge its merits if you can so confidently invoke ein shliach ledvar aveira in regards to military orders. The blog has a Chareidi dayan in Yerushalaim as the main posek everything I write in it in regards to halacha is based on the words of our sages and even the Avi Shafran spokesman of the Agudat Israel of America of all people agreed in a newspaper interview ( see here http://pilegesh.blogspot.com/2006/12/iso-kosher-concubine.html )  that what I promote is permitted albeit not normative.)
As far as it being lame or nor kol haposel be mumo posel just look at your very own  screen name &quot;shy guy&quot; how lame can that be?
Reminds me of the storyin the Memories ofthe Lubavitcher Rebbe about a Chossid of the Baal Shem Tov who callled up  10 most  modest and humble people. And when 10 people got up and stood in line number 4  told number 3 &quot;In reality I should be in your place as I am more humble than you however being so humble I don&#039;t mind so you can keep your place.&quot;
:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B&#8221;H<br />
Dear Shy guy.<br />
As you are obviously not aware “Ein Shaliach Li’dvar Aveirah.” doesn&#8217;t usually apply to military orders since soldiers are trained and drilled to obey orders and can be punished or even executed (in war time) for refusing to obey order.<br />
“Ein Shaliach Li’dvar Aveirah&#8221; however doesn&#8217;t apply to the case of Rabin himself following the order of Ben Gurion to murder their fellow Jews on Altalena for political gain because others refused to obey this order, but he volunteered of his own free will.<br />
As far as my blog you are clearly not qualified to judge its merits if you can so confidently invoke ein shliach ledvar aveira in regards to military orders. The blog has a Chareidi dayan in Yerushalaim as the main posek everything I write in it in regards to halacha is based on the words of our sages and even the Avi Shafran spokesman of the Agudat Israel of America of all people agreed in a newspaper interview ( see here <a href="http://pilegesh.blogspot.com/2006/12/iso-kosher-concubine.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://pilegesh.blogspot.com/2006/12/iso-kosher-concubine.html'>pilegesh.blogs...</a> )  that what I promote is permitted albeit not normative.)<br />
As far as it being lame or nor kol haposel be mumo posel just look at your very own  screen name &#8220;shy guy&#8221; how lame can that be?<br />
Reminds me of the storyin the Memories ofthe Lubavitcher Rebbe about a Chossid of the Baal Shem Tov who callled up  10 most  modest and humble people. And when 10 people got up and stood in line number 4  told number 3 &#8220;In reality I should be in your place as I am more humble than you however being so humble I don&#8217;t mind so you can keep your place.&#8221;<br />
 <img src='http://www.jewlicious.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Shy Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/10/some-people-think-yigal-amir-should-go-free/comment-page-2/#comment-747817</link>
		<dc:creator>Shy Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 11:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3859#comment-747817</guid>
		<description>Oh, Mr. Pilegesh, if you&#039;ll look above, it was I who initially mentioned Rabin&#039;s hand in the travesty of the Altalena.

However, there is no known testimony that Rabin himself actually fired a weapon with his own hands against the Altalena and even if he did, no verification that he actually hit someone.

And as you must know, &quot;Ein Shaliach Li&#039;dvar Aveirah.&quot; Giving the orders to murder is not the equivalent of doing the actual murdering.

Your halachic analysis here is as lame as what your blog attempts to promote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, Mr. Pilegesh, if you&#8217;ll look above, it was I who initially mentioned Rabin&#8217;s hand in the travesty of the Altalena.</p>
<p>However, there is no known testimony that Rabin himself actually fired a weapon with his own hands against the Altalena and even if he did, no verification that he actually hit someone.</p>
<p>And as you must know, &#8220;Ein Shaliach Li&#8217;dvar Aveirah.&#8221; Giving the orders to murder is not the equivalent of doing the actual murdering.</p>
<p>Your halachic analysis here is as lame as what your blog attempts to promote.</p>
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		<title>By: Pilegesh.org</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/10/some-people-think-yigal-amir-should-go-free/comment-page-2/#comment-747680</link>
		<dc:creator>Pilegesh.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 08:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3859#comment-747680</guid>
		<description>B&quot;H
Yigal Amir should be exchanged for Ehud Olmert and Co.
They should take his place in prison.
Here is a new video presentation explaining why Yigal Amir should be freed:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=2011252&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=2011252&lt;/a&gt;

PS. By the way halachikaly speaking Yigal Amir 
is exempt from punishment for killing Rabin who as has been pointed out in comments above volunteered to shoot innocent Jews on the Altalena . 
According to Torah law  someone who kills a murderer  is exempt from punishment in human court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B&#8221;H<br />
Yigal Amir should be exchanged for Ehud Olmert and Co.<br />
They should take his place in prison.<br />
Here is a new video presentation explaining why Yigal Amir should be freed:<br />
<a href="http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=2011252" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=2011252'>flix.co.il/tap...</a></p>
<p>PS. By the way halachikaly speaking Yigal Amir<br />
is exempt from punishment for killing Rabin who as has been pointed out in comments above volunteered to shoot innocent Jews on the Altalena .<br />
According to Torah law  someone who kills a murderer  is exempt from punishment in human court.</p>
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		<title>By: Shy Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/10/some-people-think-yigal-amir-should-go-free/comment-page-2/#comment-737665</link>
		<dc:creator>Shy Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 17:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3859#comment-737665</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1192380673234&amp;pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;And the Brit will be on........&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1192380673234&amp;pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull" rel="nofollow"><b>And the Brit will be on&#8230;&#8230;..</b></a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Shy Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/10/some-people-think-yigal-amir-should-go-free/comment-page-2/#comment-737610</link>
		<dc:creator>Shy Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 15:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3859#comment-737610</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;michael Says: 
October 28th, 2007 at 7:56 am 

&lt;i&gt;I know that Israel has no death penalty, but there are a few folks out there who need it, and Amir is one of them.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
So was Rabin, for his giving the order (Ben Gurion&#039;s BTW) to fire on the Altalena, murdering 17 people in cold blood.

Or has &quot;just following orders&quot; become a legitimate excuse?

17 people, Jews killed by Jews. Not bad for one afternoon&#039;s work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>michael Says:<br />
October 28th, 2007 at 7:56 am </p>
<p><i>I know that Israel has no death penalty, but there are a few folks out there who need it, and Amir is one of them.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>So was Rabin, for his giving the order (Ben Gurion&#8217;s BTW) to fire on the Altalena, murdering 17 people in cold blood.</p>
<p>Or has &#8220;just following orders&#8221; become a legitimate excuse?</p>
<p>17 people, Jews killed by Jews. Not bad for one afternoon&#8217;s work.</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/10/some-people-think-yigal-amir-should-go-free/comment-page-2/#comment-737474</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3859#comment-737474</guid>
		<description>He should have been executed.

I know that Israel has no death penalty, but there are a few folks out there who need it, and Amir is one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He should have been executed.</p>
<p>I know that Israel has no death penalty, but there are a few folks out there who need it, and Amir is one of them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/10/some-people-think-yigal-amir-should-go-free/comment-page-2/#comment-731800</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3859#comment-731800</guid>
		<description>Shy Guy, not quite, though I&#039;ve been compared to her before, but I only own about 100 pairs of shoes and have earnt each and every penny to pay for them myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shy Guy, not quite, though I&#8217;ve been compared to her before, but I only own about 100 pairs of shoes and have earnt each and every penny to pay for them myself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Shy Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/10/some-people-think-yigal-amir-should-go-free/comment-page-2/#comment-731798</link>
		<dc:creator>Shy Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3859#comment-731798</guid>
		<description>One begins to wonder whether our Sarah here is actually Imelda Markos incognito.

And please, no one respond with &quot;if the shoe fits.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One begins to wonder whether our Sarah here is actually Imelda Markos incognito.</p>
<p>And please, no one respond with &#8220;if the shoe fits.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2007/10/some-people-think-yigal-amir-should-go-free/comment-page-2/#comment-731792</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=3859#comment-731792</guid>
		<description>You better not be poking fun at my shoes ^^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You better not be poking fun at my shoes ^^</p>
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