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	<title>Comments on: Ms. Magazine rejects ad from the AJC</title>
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	<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/</link>
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		<title>By: Chutzpah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-819080</link>
		<dc:creator>Chutzpah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-819080</guid>
		<description>I agree with Ms. Kinberg...that AJC used this to create buzz for themselves.  That&#039;s what I was trying to say in comment 9.

AJC should probably spend more money trying to provide constructive ways to inspire the next generation of Jews than attacking the progress of women fighting for equality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Ms. Kinberg&#8230;that AJC used this to create buzz for themselves.  That&#8217;s what I was trying to say in comment 9.</p>
<p>AJC should probably spend more money trying to provide constructive ways to inspire the next generation of Jews than attacking the progress of women fighting for equality.</p>
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		<title>By: JVoices &#187; Blog Archive &#187; In Case You Missed This Follow Up on the Ms. Ad Controversy</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-819067</link>
		<dc:creator>JVoices &#187; Blog Archive &#187; In Case You Missed This Follow Up on the Ms. Ad Controversy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-819067</guid>
		<description>[...] Feminist Journal, Clare Kinberg, emailed to get feedback, thoughts and more when the Ms. Magazine hoopla was in all it&#8217;s glory, creating what the media loves&#8230;controversy, controversy, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Feminist Journal, Clare Kinberg, emailed to get feedback, thoughts and more when the Ms. Magazine hoopla was in all it&#8217;s glory, creating what the media loves&#8230;controversy, controversy, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ben-David</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-809861</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben-David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-809861</guid>
		<description>Chutzpah: I&#039;ve got nothing against libertarianism, if it&#039;s a consistently applied political philosophy - not a pose selectively struck by PC wrigglers.

And now that I know your back story - I&#039;ll know not to give your angry bitc.... , um *ripostes* about the Ortho community more weight than they&#039;re due.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chutzpah: I&#8217;ve got nothing against libertarianism, if it&#8217;s a consistently applied political philosophy &#8211; not a pose selectively struck by PC wrigglers.</p>
<p>And now that I know your back story &#8211; I&#8217;ll know not to give your angry bitc&#8230;. , um *ripostes* about the Ortho community more weight than they&#8217;re due.</p>
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		<title>By: Chutzpah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-809151</link>
		<dc:creator>Chutzpah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 02:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-809151</guid>
		<description>Gila...just to bring you up to speed on my back story....  been there, done that.  I am a lapsed balas tshuva and a 43 year old divorced mother of 3.  Let&#039;s put it this way, an intuitive Rebbitzen in the Old City  once told me not to marry an Ohr Somayach boy and I didn&#039;t listen because I said &quot;labels don&#039;t matter&quot;. The viewpoints I express are the result of my  life experiences and my current situation in a shtetl I call ______ N.J., a  supposed  &quot;modern pro-Israel&quot; community in 1996 that can now only be described as &quot;STARK&quot;.  
I&#039;m looking forward to reading your blog and thanks for sharing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gila&#8230;just to bring you up to speed on my back story&#8230;.  been there, done that.  I am a lapsed balas tshuva and a 43 year old divorced mother of 3.  Let&#8217;s put it this way, an intuitive Rebbitzen in the Old City  once told me not to marry an Ohr Somayach boy and I didn&#8217;t listen because I said &#8220;labels don&#8217;t matter&#8221;. The viewpoints I express are the result of my  life experiences and my current situation in a shtetl I call ______ N.J., a  supposed  &#8220;modern pro-Israel&#8221; community in 1996 that can now only be described as &#8220;STARK&#8221;.<br />
I&#8217;m looking forward to reading your blog and thanks for sharing.</p>
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		<title>By: Gila</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-808916</link>
		<dc:creator>Gila</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808916</guid>
		<description>Actually, the place I am referring to, Nishmat, is full of women who do ask questions...and who get answers, though I suspect that they are probably more har&quot;dal (haredi daati leumi--think of it as super machmir modern orthodox) as opposed to Haredim. 

And most of the women there do get married.  And Rabbanit Henkin absolutely rocks. 

I could look into the whole matter for you, if you would like more info.  I suspect that, while the position of women in general is probably not one that you or I would be particularly comfortable with, the situation is probably far more complex than it would appear to one on the outside. I just keep on thinking of my haredi friends from Maalot Dafna, and the wives of my former bosses (Har Nof and Bayit Vegan)--none of them are retiring shrinking violets.  All are married. 

Of course, I ask lots of questions, and am self-reliant, self-supporting, etc.  And also not married.  So maybe the HarNof&#039;ers are right?  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the place I am referring to, Nishmat, is full of women who do ask questions&#8230;and who get answers, though I suspect that they are probably more har&#8221;dal (haredi daati leumi&#8211;think of it as super machmir modern orthodox) as opposed to Haredim. </p>
<p>And most of the women there do get married.  And Rabbanit Henkin absolutely rocks. </p>
<p>I could look into the whole matter for you, if you would like more info.  I suspect that, while the position of women in general is probably not one that you or I would be particularly comfortable with, the situation is probably far more complex than it would appear to one on the outside. I just keep on thinking of my haredi friends from Maalot Dafna, and the wives of my former bosses (Har Nof and Bayit Vegan)&#8211;none of them are retiring shrinking violets.  All are married. </p>
<p>Of course, I ask lots of questions, and am self-reliant, self-supporting, etc.  And also not married.  So maybe the HarNof&#8217;ers are right?  <img src='http://www.jewlicious.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Chutzpah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-808909</link>
		<dc:creator>Chutzpah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 19:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808909</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s your problem with Libertarianism?

Listen Ben-David... I don&#039;t think you should buy any more copies of Ms. magazine ... it&#039;s inciting you too much. Also, I&#039;d hide my copy of Maxim  if I were you...between two gemarahs...your wife will never look for them there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s your problem with Libertarianism?</p>
<p>Listen Ben-David&#8230; I don&#8217;t think you should buy any more copies of Ms. magazine &#8230; it&#8217;s inciting you too much. Also, I&#8217;d hide my copy of Maxim  if I were you&#8230;between two gemarahs&#8230;your wife will never look for them there.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben-David</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-808905</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben-David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 19:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808905</guid>
		<description>Uhhhh - have any of you sudden converts to libertarianism actually READ the editorial staff&#039;s lame statements - both to the AJC in rejecting the ad, and afterwards?

If is were a simple case of imbalance in one issue, standard operating procedure is to:
1) say that when rejecting the ad, and 
2) offer to run the ad the following month.

That&#039;s not what happened. The implication was that an ad that said something positive about Israel was too controversial - that is would &quot;set off a firestorm&quot;.

There is nothing incendiary about that ad.

Certainly Ms. can accept or reject any ad it wishes. And now - thanks to the internet - its motives and prejudices can be laid out and discussed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uhhhh &#8211; have any of you sudden converts to libertarianism actually READ the editorial staff&#8217;s lame statements &#8211; both to the AJC in rejecting the ad, and afterwards?</p>
<p>If is were a simple case of imbalance in one issue, standard operating procedure is to:<br />
1) say that when rejecting the ad, and<br />
2) offer to run the ad the following month.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not what happened. The implication was that an ad that said something positive about Israel was too controversial &#8211; that is would &#8220;set off a firestorm&#8221;.</p>
<p>There is nothing incendiary about that ad.</p>
<p>Certainly Ms. can accept or reject any ad it wishes. And now &#8211; thanks to the internet &#8211; its motives and prejudices can be laid out and discussed.</p>
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		<title>By: Chutzpah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-808820</link>
		<dc:creator>Chutzpah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808820</guid>
		<description>Gila,

I&#039;m sure there are  many, many  intelligent haredi young ladies asking probing  questions about the role of women in Orthodox Judaism in Har Nof, Bayit Vegan and Talpiot, but eventually someone will say  to each one of those women  &quot;Hey, if you don&#039;t knock it off with the Feminist stuff  you will never get a Shidduch&quot; and that will be end of that young woman&#039;s  questioning. 

As for the ones that keep on questioning, well...they will never get a shidduch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gila,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there are  many, many  intelligent haredi young ladies asking probing  questions about the role of women in Orthodox Judaism in Har Nof, Bayit Vegan and Talpiot, but eventually someone will say  to each one of those women  &#8220;Hey, if you don&#8217;t knock it off with the Feminist stuff  you will never get a Shidduch&#8221; and that will be end of that young woman&#8217;s  questioning. </p>
<p>As for the ones that keep on questioning, well&#8230;they will never get a shidduch.</p>
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		<title>By: Chutzpah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-808792</link>
		<dc:creator>Chutzpah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808792</guid>
		<description>Very rarely would a print buyer, either in-house or with an ad agency have the time or authority to change the graphics of an ad.

&quot;If they reject again, then I would worry&quot;
No, even feminazis are allowed to have privately run print  publications with editorial control in this country. Would you expect Playboy to run an ad for a non-profit Pro-abstinence group? No. 

I suspect the whole thing was very benign.  Most likely the ad sales rep was just trying to make a living and said &quot;Oh, we are doing an issue on Israel...I&#039;ll call every Jewish group I can think of to push the sale a large ad&quot; (15% of $5,500 is better than a kick in the ass).  Then the AJC&#039;s  print  ad buyer drove her crazy about price and placement until she finally said  &quot;Fuck it, I don&#039;t need this account, it&#039;s taking up too much of my time,  tell the AJC to go take a shit in the Dead Sea.&quot;

Then the higher ups at the AJC took this little &quot;ad rejection incident&quot; and used it to create more  exposure, free buzz and sympathy than the original ad would have done.

Jews can be pretty saavy with PR, some say we control the media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very rarely would a print buyer, either in-house or with an ad agency have the time or authority to change the graphics of an ad.</p>
<p>&#8220;If they reject again, then I would worry&#8221;<br />
No, even feminazis are allowed to have privately run print  publications with editorial control in this country. Would you expect Playboy to run an ad for a non-profit Pro-abstinence group? No. </p>
<p>I suspect the whole thing was very benign.  Most likely the ad sales rep was just trying to make a living and said &#8220;Oh, we are doing an issue on Israel&#8230;I&#8217;ll call every Jewish group I can think of to push the sale a large ad&#8221; (15% of $5,500 is better than a kick in the ass).  Then the AJC&#8217;s  print  ad buyer drove her crazy about price and placement until she finally said  &#8220;Fuck it, I don&#8217;t need this account, it&#8217;s taking up too much of my time,  tell the AJC to go take a shit in the Dead Sea.&#8221;</p>
<p>Then the higher ups at the AJC took this little &#8220;ad rejection incident&#8221; and used it to create more  exposure, free buzz and sympathy than the original ad would have done.</p>
<p>Jews can be pretty saavy with PR, some say we control the media.</p>
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		<title>By: Gila</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-808783</link>
		<dc:creator>Gila</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808783</guid>
		<description>I cannot speak for Har Nof, but for a while there was some pretty happening haredi-feminist stuff happening in Bayit-Vegan (the Nishmat seminary). They moved to Talpiot though....

Perhaps Har Nof has its feminist corners as well? 

Gila</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot speak for Har Nof, but for a while there was some pretty happening haredi-feminist stuff happening in Bayit-Vegan (the Nishmat seminary). They moved to Talpiot though&#8230;.</p>
<p>Perhaps Har Nof has its feminist corners as well? </p>
<p>Gila</p>
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		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-808271</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808271</guid>
		<description>Certainly, Chutzpah, I meant to point out that an editor would not likely forego the chance of placing a decently earning ad without any reason(ing).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly, Chutzpah, I meant to point out that an editor would not likely forego the chance of placing a decently earning ad without any reason(ing).</p>
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		<title>By: themiddle</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-808210</link>
		<dc:creator>themiddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808210</guid>
		<description>An ad at this mag is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.msmagazine.com/MSRateCard07.pdf&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;  rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a little cheaper&lt;/a&gt;, Chutzpah. Plus the AJC probably qualifies for the non-profit discount. The mag&#039;s circulation appears to be around 200,000. 

I&#039;m finding it a little hard to see what the big deal is about this ad rejection. Take another photo where you have Beinisch and two female politicians from two different parties and resubmit. If they reject again, then I would worry. 

Ms. Magazine is profiling Livni in the issue, so anti-Israel bias doesn&#039;t seem to be the issue. 

On the other hand, I&#039;m curious about the AJC&#039;s objectives. Is this an important constituency to reach?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An ad at this mag is <a href="http://www.msmagazine.com/MSRateCard07.pdf" target="_blank"  rel="nofollow">a little cheaper</a>, Chutzpah. Plus the AJC probably qualifies for the non-profit discount. The mag&#8217;s circulation appears to be around 200,000. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m finding it a little hard to see what the big deal is about this ad rejection. Take another photo where you have Beinisch and two female politicians from two different parties and resubmit. If they reject again, then I would worry. </p>
<p>Ms. Magazine is profiling Livni in the issue, so anti-Israel bias doesn&#8217;t seem to be the issue. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I&#8217;m curious about the AJC&#8217;s objectives. Is this an important constituency to reach?</p>
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		<title>By: Chutzpah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-808199</link>
		<dc:creator>Chutzpah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808199</guid>
		<description>Froylein,
It seems the Editor of Ms. wisely erred on the side of caution to prevent any of her readers saying &quot;hey, when did this magazine become so Jew-focused&quot;.  I&#039;m sure she turned down plenty of money for that ad.  

Also, another advertiser may have offered her more money at the last minute than the AJC for that space.  Advertising space is often sold by commissioned sales reps.  If I were closing a deal near the end of the month for AJC for $15,000 for a Full page, 4 color and Hezbollah Central  offered me $20,000  I might consider  running to my Editor to ask for permission to drop AJC.  The final decision is up to the Editor-in-Chief , the Publisher and the particular conscience (or lack thereof) of the Advertising Sales Rep.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Froylein,<br />
It seems the Editor of Ms. wisely erred on the side of caution to prevent any of her readers saying &#8220;hey, when did this magazine become so Jew-focused&#8221;.  I&#8217;m sure she turned down plenty of money for that ad.  </p>
<p>Also, another advertiser may have offered her more money at the last minute than the AJC for that space.  Advertising space is often sold by commissioned sales reps.  If I were closing a deal near the end of the month for AJC for $15,000 for a Full page, 4 color and Hezbollah Central  offered me $20,000  I might consider  running to my Editor to ask for permission to drop AJC.  The final decision is up to the Editor-in-Chief , the Publisher and the particular conscience (or lack thereof) of the Advertising Sales Rep.</p>
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		<title>By: Chutzpah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-808193</link>
		<dc:creator>Chutzpah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808193</guid>
		<description>&quot;Israel is th only place in the middle east to be a feminist&quot;...Yo Rabbi, apparently you&#039;ve never been to Har Nof.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Israel is th only place in the middle east to be a feminist&#8221;&#8230;Yo Rabbi, apparently you&#8217;ve never been to Har Nof.</p>
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		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-808155</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808155</guid>
		<description>I agree with Chutzpah; mags thrive on ads though, the magazine&#039;s price alone doesn&#039;t usually even cover the expenses of the print. Still, ads can be seriously misplaced to the extent that it makes one wonder what the editor in charge might have been thinking, e.g. a leading political magazine over here once issued a special edition on active euthanasia (which is forbidden in Germany) and introduced several terminally ill people and their views on assisted dying. The first three pages of that magazine though were a glossy ad for brandname designer clothing displaying healthy young models in all their beauty. It did make me wonder whether the magazine&#039;s editors did care for those people they portrayed at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Chutzpah; mags thrive on ads though, the magazine&#8217;s price alone doesn&#8217;t usually even cover the expenses of the print. Still, ads can be seriously misplaced to the extent that it makes one wonder what the editor in charge might have been thinking, e.g. a leading political magazine over here once issued a special edition on active euthanasia (which is forbidden in Germany) and introduced several terminally ill people and their views on assisted dying. The first three pages of that magazine though were a glossy ad for brandname designer clothing displaying healthy young models in all their beauty. It did make me wonder whether the magazine&#8217;s editors did care for those people they portrayed at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Rabbi Yonah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-808133</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabbi Yonah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808133</guid>
		<description>I was being sarcastic, apparently unsuccessfully. 

In IS ironic that Ms. readership apparently might be offended by pro-Israel ads when in fact Israel is the only place in the middle east to be a feminist.

As far the biz of the publishing industry - i leave all that to you chutzpah</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was being sarcastic, apparently unsuccessfully. </p>
<p>In IS ironic that Ms. readership apparently might be offended by pro-Israel ads when in fact Israel is the only place in the middle east to be a feminist.</p>
<p>As far the biz of the publishing industry &#8211; i leave all that to you chutzpah</p>
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		<title>By: Chutzpah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/#comment-808117</link>
		<dc:creator>Chutzpah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808117</guid>
		<description>Nothing ironic about turning down an ad in the publishing business.  If there was already  a two page article, an additional page can give the overall issue an  unbalanced feeling.

The print magazine industry is too competitive today to offer an issue that might discourage readers from buying the next issue;or,canceling or not renewing a subscription. 

Nothing wrong with running two issues in a row containing one article  each on a  topic.

 Palestinian readers are just as important as Israeli readers of either political party to the magazine&#039;s bottom line,afterall it is not &quot;Jewish Living Today&quot;.  Editorial choices need to be made with profits in mind. 

One magazine can&#039;t &quot;undo&quot; the sexism of the contents  found in another...that is a  non-business-driven assumption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing ironic about turning down an ad in the publishing business.  If there was already  a two page article, an additional page can give the overall issue an  unbalanced feeling.</p>
<p>The print magazine industry is too competitive today to offer an issue that might discourage readers from buying the next issue;or,canceling or not renewing a subscription. </p>
<p>Nothing wrong with running two issues in a row containing one article  each on a  topic.</p>
<p> Palestinian readers are just as important as Israeli readers of either political party to the magazine&#8217;s bottom line,afterall it is not &#8220;Jewish Living Today&#8221;.  Editorial choices need to be made with profits in mind. </p>
<p>One magazine can&#8217;t &#8220;undo&#8221; the sexism of the contents  found in another&#8230;that is a  non-business-driven assumption.</p>
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