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	<title>Comments on: Ms. Magazine rejects ad from the AJC</title>
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	<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/</link>
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		<title>By: Chutzpah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/comment-page-1/#comment-819080</link>
		<dc:creator>Chutzpah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-819080</guid>
		<description>I agree with Ms. Kinberg...that AJC used this to create buzz for themselves.  That&#039;s what I was trying to say in comment 9.

AJC should probably spend more money trying to provide constructive ways to inspire the next generation of Jews than attacking the progress of women fighting for equality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Ms. Kinberg&#8230;that AJC used this to create buzz for themselves.  That&#8217;s what I was trying to say in comment 9.</p>
<p>AJC should probably spend more money trying to provide constructive ways to inspire the next generation of Jews than attacking the progress of women fighting for equality.</p>
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		<title>By: JVoices &#187; Blog Archive &#187; In Case You Missed This Follow Up on the Ms. Ad Controversy</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/comment-page-1/#comment-819067</link>
		<dc:creator>JVoices &#187; Blog Archive &#187; In Case You Missed This Follow Up on the Ms. Ad Controversy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-819067</guid>
		<description>[...] Feminist Journal, Clare Kinberg, emailed to get feedback, thoughts and more when the Ms. Magazine hoopla was in all it&#8217;s glory, creating what the media loves&#8230;controversy, controversy, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Feminist Journal, Clare Kinberg, emailed to get feedback, thoughts and more when the Ms. Magazine hoopla was in all it&#8217;s glory, creating what the media loves&#8230;controversy, controversy, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ben-David</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/comment-page-1/#comment-809861</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben-David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-809861</guid>
		<description>Chutzpah: I&#039;ve got nothing against libertarianism, if it&#039;s a consistently applied political philosophy - not a pose selectively struck by PC wrigglers.

And now that I know your back story - I&#039;ll know not to give your angry bitc.... , um *ripostes* about the Ortho community more weight than they&#039;re due.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chutzpah: I&#8217;ve got nothing against libertarianism, if it&#8217;s a consistently applied political philosophy &#8211; not a pose selectively struck by PC wrigglers.</p>
<p>And now that I know your back story &#8211; I&#8217;ll know not to give your angry bitc&#8230;. , um *ripostes* about the Ortho community more weight than they&#8217;re due.</p>
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		<title>By: Chutzpah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/comment-page-1/#comment-809151</link>
		<dc:creator>Chutzpah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 02:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-809151</guid>
		<description>Gila...just to bring you up to speed on my back story....  been there, done that.  I am a lapsed balas tshuva and a 43 year old divorced mother of 3.  Let&#039;s put it this way, an intuitive Rebbitzen in the Old City  once told me not to marry an Ohr Somayach boy and I didn&#039;t listen because I said &quot;labels don&#039;t matter&quot;. The viewpoints I express are the result of my  life experiences and my current situation in a shtetl I call ______ N.J., a  supposed  &quot;modern pro-Israel&quot; community in 1996 that can now only be described as &quot;STARK&quot;.  
I&#039;m looking forward to reading your blog and thanks for sharing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gila&#8230;just to bring you up to speed on my back story&#8230;.  been there, done that.  I am a lapsed balas tshuva and a 43 year old divorced mother of 3.  Let&#8217;s put it this way, an intuitive Rebbitzen in the Old City  once told me not to marry an Ohr Somayach boy and I didn&#8217;t listen because I said &#8220;labels don&#8217;t matter&#8221;. The viewpoints I express are the result of my  life experiences and my current situation in a shtetl I call ______ N.J., a  supposed  &#8220;modern pro-Israel&#8221; community in 1996 that can now only be described as &#8220;STARK&#8221;.<br />
I&#8217;m looking forward to reading your blog and thanks for sharing.</p>
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		<title>By: Gila</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/comment-page-1/#comment-808916</link>
		<dc:creator>Gila</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808916</guid>
		<description>Actually, the place I am referring to, Nishmat, is full of women who do ask questions...and who get answers, though I suspect that they are probably more har&quot;dal (haredi daati leumi--think of it as super machmir modern orthodox) as opposed to Haredim. 

And most of the women there do get married.  And Rabbanit Henkin absolutely rocks. 

I could look into the whole matter for you, if you would like more info.  I suspect that, while the position of women in general is probably not one that you or I would be particularly comfortable with, the situation is probably far more complex than it would appear to one on the outside. I just keep on thinking of my haredi friends from Maalot Dafna, and the wives of my former bosses (Har Nof and Bayit Vegan)--none of them are retiring shrinking violets.  All are married. 

Of course, I ask lots of questions, and am self-reliant, self-supporting, etc.  And also not married.  So maybe the HarNof&#039;ers are right?  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the place I am referring to, Nishmat, is full of women who do ask questions&#8230;and who get answers, though I suspect that they are probably more har&#8221;dal (haredi daati leumi&#8211;think of it as super machmir modern orthodox) as opposed to Haredim. </p>
<p>And most of the women there do get married.  And Rabbanit Henkin absolutely rocks. </p>
<p>I could look into the whole matter for you, if you would like more info.  I suspect that, while the position of women in general is probably not one that you or I would be particularly comfortable with, the situation is probably far more complex than it would appear to one on the outside. I just keep on thinking of my haredi friends from Maalot Dafna, and the wives of my former bosses (Har Nof and Bayit Vegan)&#8211;none of them are retiring shrinking violets.  All are married. </p>
<p>Of course, I ask lots of questions, and am self-reliant, self-supporting, etc.  And also not married.  So maybe the HarNof&#8217;ers are right?  <img src='http://www.jewlicious.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Chutzpah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/comment-page-1/#comment-808909</link>
		<dc:creator>Chutzpah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 19:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808909</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s your problem with Libertarianism?

Listen Ben-David... I don&#039;t think you should buy any more copies of Ms. magazine ... it&#039;s inciting you too much. Also, I&#039;d hide my copy of Maxim  if I were you...between two gemarahs...your wife will never look for them there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s your problem with Libertarianism?</p>
<p>Listen Ben-David&#8230; I don&#8217;t think you should buy any more copies of Ms. magazine &#8230; it&#8217;s inciting you too much. Also, I&#8217;d hide my copy of Maxim  if I were you&#8230;between two gemarahs&#8230;your wife will never look for them there.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben-David</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/comment-page-1/#comment-808905</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben-David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 19:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808905</guid>
		<description>Uhhhh - have any of you sudden converts to libertarianism actually READ the editorial staff&#039;s lame statements - both to the AJC in rejecting the ad, and afterwards?

If is were a simple case of imbalance in one issue, standard operating procedure is to:
1) say that when rejecting the ad, and 
2) offer to run the ad the following month.

That&#039;s not what happened. The implication was that an ad that said something positive about Israel was too controversial - that is would &quot;set off a firestorm&quot;.

There is nothing incendiary about that ad.

Certainly Ms. can accept or reject any ad it wishes. And now - thanks to the internet - its motives and prejudices can be laid out and discussed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uhhhh &#8211; have any of you sudden converts to libertarianism actually READ the editorial staff&#8217;s lame statements &#8211; both to the AJC in rejecting the ad, and afterwards?</p>
<p>If is were a simple case of imbalance in one issue, standard operating procedure is to:<br />
1) say that when rejecting the ad, and<br />
2) offer to run the ad the following month.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not what happened. The implication was that an ad that said something positive about Israel was too controversial &#8211; that is would &#8220;set off a firestorm&#8221;.</p>
<p>There is nothing incendiary about that ad.</p>
<p>Certainly Ms. can accept or reject any ad it wishes. And now &#8211; thanks to the internet &#8211; its motives and prejudices can be laid out and discussed.</p>
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		<title>By: Chutzpah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/comment-page-1/#comment-808820</link>
		<dc:creator>Chutzpah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808820</guid>
		<description>Gila,

I&#039;m sure there are  many, many  intelligent haredi young ladies asking probing  questions about the role of women in Orthodox Judaism in Har Nof, Bayit Vegan and Talpiot, but eventually someone will say  to each one of those women  &quot;Hey, if you don&#039;t knock it off with the Feminist stuff  you will never get a Shidduch&quot; and that will be end of that young woman&#039;s  questioning. 

As for the ones that keep on questioning, well...they will never get a shidduch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gila,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there are  many, many  intelligent haredi young ladies asking probing  questions about the role of women in Orthodox Judaism in Har Nof, Bayit Vegan and Talpiot, but eventually someone will say  to each one of those women  &#8220;Hey, if you don&#8217;t knock it off with the Feminist stuff  you will never get a Shidduch&#8221; and that will be end of that young woman&#8217;s  questioning. </p>
<p>As for the ones that keep on questioning, well&#8230;they will never get a shidduch.</p>
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		<title>By: Chutzpah</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/comment-page-1/#comment-808792</link>
		<dc:creator>Chutzpah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808792</guid>
		<description>Very rarely would a print buyer, either in-house or with an ad agency have the time or authority to change the graphics of an ad.

&quot;If they reject again, then I would worry&quot;
No, even feminazis are allowed to have privately run print  publications with editorial control in this country. Would you expect Playboy to run an ad for a non-profit Pro-abstinence group? No. 

I suspect the whole thing was very benign.  Most likely the ad sales rep was just trying to make a living and said &quot;Oh, we are doing an issue on Israel...I&#039;ll call every Jewish group I can think of to push the sale a large ad&quot; (15% of $5,500 is better than a kick in the ass).  Then the AJC&#039;s  print  ad buyer drove her crazy about price and placement until she finally said  &quot;Fuck it, I don&#039;t need this account, it&#039;s taking up too much of my time,  tell the AJC to go take a shit in the Dead Sea.&quot;

Then the higher ups at the AJC took this little &quot;ad rejection incident&quot; and used it to create more  exposure, free buzz and sympathy than the original ad would have done.

Jews can be pretty saavy with PR, some say we control the media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very rarely would a print buyer, either in-house or with an ad agency have the time or authority to change the graphics of an ad.</p>
<p>&#8220;If they reject again, then I would worry&#8221;<br />
No, even feminazis are allowed to have privately run print  publications with editorial control in this country. Would you expect Playboy to run an ad for a non-profit Pro-abstinence group? No. </p>
<p>I suspect the whole thing was very benign.  Most likely the ad sales rep was just trying to make a living and said &#8220;Oh, we are doing an issue on Israel&#8230;I&#8217;ll call every Jewish group I can think of to push the sale a large ad&#8221; (15% of $5,500 is better than a kick in the ass).  Then the AJC&#8217;s  print  ad buyer drove her crazy about price and placement until she finally said  &#8220;Fuck it, I don&#8217;t need this account, it&#8217;s taking up too much of my time,  tell the AJC to go take a shit in the Dead Sea.&#8221;</p>
<p>Then the higher ups at the AJC took this little &#8220;ad rejection incident&#8221; and used it to create more  exposure, free buzz and sympathy than the original ad would have done.</p>
<p>Jews can be pretty saavy with PR, some say we control the media.</p>
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		<title>By: Gila</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/01/ms-magazine-rejects-ad-from-the-ajc/comment-page-1/#comment-808783</link>
		<dc:creator>Gila</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4084#comment-808783</guid>
		<description>I cannot speak for Har Nof, but for a while there was some pretty happening haredi-feminist stuff happening in Bayit-Vegan (the Nishmat seminary). They moved to Talpiot though....

Perhaps Har Nof has its feminist corners as well? 

Gila</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot speak for Har Nof, but for a while there was some pretty happening haredi-feminist stuff happening in Bayit-Vegan (the Nishmat seminary). They moved to Talpiot though&#8230;.</p>
<p>Perhaps Har Nof has its feminist corners as well? </p>
<p>Gila</p>
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