I will add, just so I can be clear, that Israel’s participation in “all of this” violence across the world is actually often more justified than many other countries’ violence. Israel has a legitimate claim for fearing for its existence. In the last couple of days it has killed quite a few Palestinians, for example, most of whom were terrorists. None of them would have been killed were they not shooting rockets – entirely unprovoked – into Israeli civilian communities daily. In that regard, I don’t see how Israel could be more moral. In fact, it did just as the original writer suggested and walked away from Gaza and gave it in its entirety to the Palestinians. The result has been the non-stop rocket firing and a massive buildup of arms even as their people are suffering from a poor economy.

Finally, you have absolutely no reason to apologize for your participation in this discussion. It was welcome and so are your comments on other issues here.

I guess I’m just trying to assume that the original WashPost author had the best of intentions. I suppose I’m getting off topic and obviously out of place in this debate on how severely the author did in fact insult the Jews as a people, so I’m sorry.

Table 2
Deaths in Wars and Conflicts Since the End of World War II: 1945 to 2000
Deathsa
Region Conflict Civilian Military Total
Latin America
Argentina
1955 armed forces vs. Peron 2,000 2,000 4,000
1976–79 “disappearances” 15–30,000 … 15–30,000
1982 Falklands/Malvinas 0 1,000 1,000
Bolivia
1952 revolution vs. government 1,000 1,000 2,000
1955–67 guerrilla insurgency … … 200,000
Brazil
1980 rightist terrorism … … 1,000
Chile
1973 military coup vs. Allende government … … 5,000
1974 executions by military junta 20,000 0 20,000
Colombia
1948 conservatives vs. government … … 1,000
1949–62 liberals vs. conservatives 200,000 100,000 300,000
1980–89 government vs. left opposition 8,000 0 8,000
Costa Rica
1948 National Union vs. government 1,000 1,000 2,000
Cuba
1958–59 Cuban revolution 2,000 3,000 5,000
Dominican Republic
1965 civil war/U.S. intervention 1,000 2,000 3,000
El Salvador
1979–89 FMLN vs. government 50,000 23,000 73,000
Guatemala
1954 conservatives vs. government/ … … 1,000
U.S. intervention
1966–89 government vs. URNG vs. 200,000 17,500 212,500
military opposition
1990–95 slaughter of indigenous peoplesb 10,000 … 10,000
Honduras
1969 Soccer War with El Salvador 3,000 2,000 5,000
Jamaica
1980 election violence 1,000 0 1,000
74
Deathsa
Region Conflict Civilian Military Total
Nicaragua
1978–79 civil war vs. Somoza government 25,000 10,000 35,000
Peru
1980–92 Sendero Luminoso vs. government 62,000 7,000 69,000
Middle East
Cyprus
1974 National Guard/Turkish invasion 3,000 2,000 5,000
Egypt
1955 Suez invasion/France, Israel, UK 1,000 3,000 4,000
1967–70 Six-Day War; War of Attrition 50,000 25,000 75,000
Iran
1979–89 Government vs. opposition (esp. Kurds) … 0 17,000
1980–88 Iran-Iraq war 0 1,000,000 1,000,000
Iraq
1959 Shammar tribe vs. government 1,000 1,000 2,000
1961–74 Kurds vs. government … … 200,000
1980–88 Iran-Iraq Warb … 800,000 800,000
1988 “Anfall” killings of Kurds 100,000 0 100,000
1980–89 government vs. Kurds (KDP, PUK) … … 67,000
1991 Gulf Warb … … 75,000
1991–95 Shia/Southb 50,000 … 50,000
1982–2002 additional political killings by Iraq 350,000 … 350,000
government
Israel
1948 Arab League vs. Israel 0 8,000 8,000
1973 Yom Kippur War vs. Egypt, Syria 0 16,000 16,000
1987–2000 Intifadab 13,000 0 13,000
Jordan
1970 Palestinians/Syrians vs. government 1,000 1,000 2,000
Lebanon
1958 civil war 1,000 1,000 2,000
1975–89 civil war/Syrian and Israeli interventions … … 131,000
Syria
1981 government massacre of Muslim 10,000 0 10,000
Brotherhood at Hamah
Turkey
1984–2000 government vs. Kurdish Workers’ 30,000 0 30,000
Party (PKK)
75
Deathsa
Region Conflict Civilian Military Total
Yemen, Republic of
1948 Yahya family vs. government 2,000 2,000 4,000
1962–69 civil war, including Egyptian intervention … … 10,000
1994 Border war vs government of Yemen PDRb … 4,000 4,000
Yemen, (former) People’s Democratic Republic of
1986 civil war … … 10,000
South Asia
Afghanistan
1978–89 civil war/Soviet interventionb … … 1,000,000
1990–2000b civil war … … 1,000,000c
Bangladesh
1971 civil war/Indian intervention 1,000,000 500,000 1,500,000
1975–89 autonomy struggle in Chittagong … … 1,000
India
1946–48 partition-related strife 800,000 0 800,000
1947–49 India vs. Pakistan over Kashmir 1,000 2,000 3,000
1948 India vs. Hyderabad 1,000 1,000 2,000
1962 Sino-Indian war 1,000 1,000 2,000
1965 India vs. Pakistan/Rann of Kutch war 13,000 7,000 20,000
1971 India vs. Pakistan (associated with 0 11,000 11,000
Pakistani civil war)
1983 Assam election violence 3,000 … 3,000
1983–2000 Sikh autonomy campaignb … … 25,200
1990–2000 Kashmirb 9,000 20,000 29,000
Nepal
1996- Maoist insurgency vs. government … … 5,000
Pakistan
1973–77 Baluchis vs. government/Afghan 6,000 3,000 9,000
intervention
Sri Lanka
1971 Maoists vs. government 1,000 1,000 2,000
1983–89 Government vs. Tamil Elam separatists/Indian… … 15,000
intervention/Singhalese People’s Liberation
Front intervention
1990–2002 Government vs Tamil Elam (LTTE) b … … 50,000
Far East
Burma
1948–51 Karens vs. government/Chinese intervention … … 8,000
1980 Burma Communist Party vs. government … … 5,000
1981–93 Government vs. opposition (mostly Karen) 0 9,000 9,000
76
Deathsa
Region Conflict Civilian Military Total
Cambodia
1970–75 Civil war/Indochina conflict … … 156,000
1975–78 Pol Pot government vs. civilians 1,770,000 … 1,770,000
1978–90 Vietnamese invasion and civil war 20,000 50,000 70,000
1990–94 government vs Khmer Rougeb … … 25,000
China
1946–50 Civil warb 5,000,000 1,200,000 6,200,000
1950–51 takeover of Tibet 0 1,000 1,000
1951–53 Chinese PLA mortality in Korean
war listed together with Korean war
1956–59 Tibetan revoltb … … 200,000
1983–84 government executions 5,000 0 5,000
1989 Tiananmen Square 1,000 0 1,000
Indonesia
1945–46 independence struggle 4,000 1,000 5,000
1950 Moluccans vs. government … … 5,000
1953 Darul Islam vs. government … … 1,000
1956–60 Communists vs. government … … 30,000
1965–66 massacres following attempted coup 500,000 0 500,000
1975–89 annexation of East Timor 120,000 11,000 131,000
2000 post-Timor plebisciteb 2–3,000 … 2–3,000
2000 Aceh province insurgencyb 2,000 … 2,000
Korea (North and South)
1948 Yosu Rebellion 0 1,000 1,000
1950–53 Korean Warb (includes Chinese 2,828,000 1,672,000 4,500,000
PLA, U.S. and UN mortality)
Laos
1960–73 civil war/Indochina conflict 12,000 12,000 24,000
1975–87 government/Vietnam vs. National 30,000 10,000 40,000
Liberation Front
Malaya (now Malaysia)
1950–60 UK intervention in civil war … … 13,000
Philippines
1950–52 Hukbalahop vs. government 5,000 4,000 9,000
1972–2000 Muslims (MNLF, MILF), and New 100,000 20,000 120,000
People’s Army vs. government;
Muslims (MNLF, MILF), and New
People’s Army vs. governmentb
Taiwan (China)
1954–55 civil strife … … 5,000
77
Deathsa
Region Conflict Civilian Military Total
Vietnam
1945–54 independence struggle vs. Franceb 300,000 300,000 600,000
1960–75 N. Vietnam vs. S. Vietnam/United 1,200,000 1,158,000 2,358,000
Statesb
1979 China vs. Vietnam 0 56,000 56,000
1979 Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia … 25,300 25,300
1980–88 China vs. Vietnam/border 0 1,000 1,000
Sub-Saharan Africa
Angola
1961–75 Independence struggle vs. Portugal 300,000 300,000 600,000
1980–95 Civil war/Cuban-South African interventionb … … 1,000,000
1995–2000 Civil War continuedb … … 100,000
Burundi
1972 Hutus vs. government/massacre 80,000 20,000 100,000
1988 civil strife 200,000 0 200,000
10–12/1993b civil strife 200,000 0 200,000
Cameroon
1955–60 independence struggle vs. France … … 32,000
Chad
1965–89 government vs. opposition/Libyan … … 28,000
intervention
Ethiopia
1978 Somalian invasionb … … 150,000
1962–89 Eritrean and other opposition vs. … … 1,000,000
governmentb
1998 Ethiopia-Eritrea War … 100,000 100,000
Ghana
1981 Konkomba vs. Nanumba … … 1,000
Guinea-Bissau
1962–74 independence struggle vs. Portugal 5,000 10,000 15,000
Kenya
1952–63 independence struggle vs. UK … …100–300,000
Liberia
1990–95 civil warb 100,000 … 100,000
Madagascar
1947–48 independence struggle vs. France 3,000 2,000 5,000
Mozambique
1965–75 independence struggle vs. Portugal … … 30,000
1981–88 civil warb … … 900,000
78
Deathsa
Region Conflict Civilian Military Total
Namibia
1967–89 SWAPO independence vs. South Africa … … 13,000
Nigeria
1967–70 civil war 1,000,000 1,000,000 2,000,000
1980–81 fundamentalist Muslims vs. government … … 5,000
1984 fundamentalist Muslims vs. government … … 1,000
1999- regional civil unrest 10,000 … 10,000
Rwanda
1956–65 Tutsis vs. government/massacre 102,000 3,000 105,000
1990–95b civil strife and genocide … … 1,000,000
Sierra Leone
1991–2000 government vs. insurgentsb 50,000 … 50,000
Somalia
1980–90 civil strife 5,000 5,000 10,000
1990–93b civil strife … … 300,000
South Africa
1985–89 African National Congress vs. Inkathab 5,000 0 5,000
Sudan
1955–72 civil warb … … 750,000
1983–90 civil warb 500,000 10,000 510,000
1990–95 civil warb … … 500,000
1995–2000 civil warb … … 1,000,000
Uganda
1966 Bungandans vs. government 1,000 1,000 2,000
1971–78 Idi Amin massacres 300,000 0 300,000
1978–79 Tanzanian invasion … 3,000 3,000
1981–85 Obote government massacresb 300,000 0 300,000
1981–88 National Resistance Army vs. 100,000 6,000 106,000
government/NRA vs. opposition
1990 Lord’s Resistance Army vs. government 50,000 … 50,000
West Sahara
1975–89 Polisario vs. Morocco 4,000 8,000 12,000
Zaire/Congo
1960–65 civil war … … 100,000
1996–97 Hutu refugees in Zaire 200,000 0 200,000
1998–2000 civil warb … … 1,500,000
Zambia
1964 civil strife … … 1,000
79
Deathsa
Region Conflict Civilian Military Total
Zimbabwe
1972–79 struggle for majority rule … … 12,000
1979–87 government vs. ZAPU, MNR 2,000 0 2,000
Northern Africa
Algeria
1954–62 independence struggle vs. France … … 1,000,000
1962–63 rebel leaders vs. government 1,000 1,000 2,000
1990–95 government vs Muslim extremistsb … … 30,000
1993–2000 government vs Muslim extremistsb … … 100,000
Morocco
1953–56 independence struggle vs. France 3,000 0 3,000
Tunisia
1952–54 independence struggle vs. France 3,000 0 3,000
Russia, Balkan and CIS States
Armenia/Azerbaijan
1992–94 war over Nagorno-Karabakhb … 10,000 10,000
Chechnya
1994–96 Russia vs. Chechen insurgentsb … … (Chechens) 80,000
… 15,000 (Russians) 15,000
1999–2000 Russia vs. Chechen insurgentsb … … (Chechens) 15,000
… 3,500 (Russians) 3,500
“Former Yugoslavia” (Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina)
1991–96 civil warb … … 300,000
Georgia
1994 Civil War vs. Abkhaziab … 2,500 2,500
Kosovo
1998–99 Serbia vs Kosovo insurgentsb 10,000 … 10,000
Tajikistan
1992–96 civil warb … … 100,000
Total approximately 40,968,000,

Table 1
War-Related Deaths, 1955 – 2000, Selected Countries
Country Years Estimated Deaths
Sudan 1955–1972 750,000
Indonesia 1965 ca. 400,000–450,000
Nigeria/Biafra 1967–1970 1 million civilian plus 1 million military
Bangladesh/East Pakistan 1971 1 million civilian plus 500,000 military
Uganda [Idi Amin] 1971–1978 ca. 300,000
Burundi 1972 ca. 250,000
Indonesia/East Timor 1975–1980 ca 100,000 (out of a population of 2 million)
Cambodia/Khmer Rouge 1975–1978 1.77 million, of which ca. 90,000 murdered
Angola 1980–1988 ca. 700,000
Mozambique 1980–1988 ca. 1 million (1989 UN figure was 900,000)
Uganda [Obote] 1981–1985 ca. 300,000
Sudan 1983–2000 2 million (as of April 2001)
Iraq/Kurds first half 1988 ca. 100,000 killed in a pure WWII Nazi mobile unitstyle
extermination campaign (Since 1970, the
campaign destroyed 3,000 Kurdish villages and
displaced 1.5 million Kurds.)
Somalia 1991–1992 350,000 died due to starvation and warfare; 1.5
million refugees
Bosnia/Yugoslavia 1992–1995 ca. 200,000
Angola 1993–1994 over 100,000. In September 1994, a UN Secretary
General’s Report quoted a “death rate” of 1,000/day,
or over 300,000/year, “the highest of any conflict in
the world.” Two million refugees.
Burundi October 1993 ca. 200,000
Rwanda 1994 800,000; 4 million refugees (In December 2001 the
Rwandan government reported this number to have
been 1.07 million.)
Zaire/Congo 1997–April 2003 1.75 million (Between 3.3 and 4.7 million have been
killed or died of starvation due to fighting in the
Congo in the time span indicated: to remain within
“the 20th Century,” only a portion of that sum is
counted here.)
TOTAL DEATHS Approximately 15 million

- 1949–54 land reform movement 4,500,000 (civilians)
- 1949–54 “suppression of counterrevolutionaries” 3,000,000 (civilians)
- 1959 “Anti-Rightists” campaign approx. 900,000 (civilians)
- 1959–61 Great Leap Forward/starvation 30 million (civilians)
- 1965–75 “Cultural Revolution” 1,613,000 civilians and
537,000 military, totaling 2,150,000 additional deaths in labor camps during Cultural Revolution

Do you think you would find this man’s racism to be overt enough, Sydney, if he wrote: “We have created a culture of violence (China and the Chinese are the biggest players) and that Culture of Violence is eventually going to destroy humanity.”

Furthermore, he wasn’t just speaking about Israel but about all Jews and about Jews’ supposed manipulation of the Holocaust to their own ends. He then concludes by placing Jews and the Jewish state at the head of the blame list for world violence which he predicts will lead to the world’s demise.

To reflect on this a bit more, I encourage you to visit this site and this site and read up on whether Israel or Jews are at the “biggest players” in world violence.

From the second link:

…an estimate for the total number of deaths in wars and conflicts for the entire
20th century. The answer is composed of the following components:
- World War I mortality, between 13 and 15 million.
- The Armenian Genocide of 1915, listed in a separate category below.
- The Russian civil war of 1918–1922 and the Polish-Soviet conflict towards its end, deaths of over
12.5 million in Russia alone. (A sum that is approximately equal to the battlefield deaths of all
participants in WWI.)25
- The Mexican Revolution, 1909–1916, 1 million deaths.
- The Spanish Civil War, 1936–1939, 600,000 deaths.26
- Various colonial and other pre–1914 wars, approximately 1.5 million deaths.
- World War II, deaths of between 65 and 75 million.
- Wars/conflicts between 1945 and 2000, deaths of 41 million.

That last statistic is important because Israel was founded in 1948. Since that time, even with the inflated numbers of dead this scholar counts in his conflicts, the Israel-Arab conflict represents about 110,000 dead.

But I think that the original author could have added more to this, and perhaps he thought that this was implied. But he should have added that we are all at fault, and by this I mean the US, European nations, even the Palestinian territories. Israel has every right to defend itself, but everyone involved needs to realize that there is a fine line between defending your right to exist and robbing others of their rights. I think that Israel, at times, is so caught up in its frantic struggle to ward off what it sees–totally justifiably–as a never ending wave of aggression, that it pushes occasionally too far over this fine line.

But Israel should not have the burden of fixing this situation alone, and neither should Israel and Palestine be forced to fix it alone, together. Every country involved (i.e. power players in the Middle East, plus the USA) needs to come to terms with this difficult situation, and realize that no solution is going to happen with people attacking each other. Unfortunately, I don’t see that this will be possible at all, and I have no suggestions as to how to make it happen. I’m not really arguing against anyone’s points, I just want to remind everyone that situations like this need to be viewed from all sides, however difficult that can be.

Pakistan supports and shelters osama.

Osama bin laden calls for the destruction of ISrael

Al queda supports Hamas

Pakistan shelters Alqueda.

therfore

Pakistan = HATRED TOWARDS ISRAEL

man.. even common pakistani’s hate jews.

ISRALE Cant even open an embassy in pakistan..

so much for MUSHARAF … he is gonna get wiped out by some idiots too.

forget palestine..

PAKISTAN ARMED WITH NUKES IS ISRAELS NIGHTMARE WAITING TO HAPPEN..

and these jews worry about a fringe element 77 year old arun gandhi.. wtf???

No offense toward Pakistan intended, either. Surely one can have no more sagacious, consistent, and stable an ally than General Musharraf.