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	<title>Comments on: Judaica Art Quiz</title>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-911899</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 06:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>thanks for the advice, now how about some advice on meeting the &quot;right people&quot;.  Just kidding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for the advice, now how about some advice on meeting the &#8220;right people&#8221;.  Just kidding.</p>
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		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-911891</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 06:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Michelle, the same applies to non-Jewish aspiring artists. My advice is: get a day-job and use the painting as a hobby until it may eventually take off to pay for your living. Remember, van Gogh only sold one painting during his lifetime. Not everybody is as lucky as Beuys, Liechtenstein, Chagall etc. I know an Israeli artist who has resorted to producing the touristy art stuff in order to pay for his living and his art projects that are dear to him. That, or sleep with the right people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michelle, the same applies to non-Jewish aspiring artists. My advice is: get a day-job and use the painting as a hobby until it may eventually take off to pay for your living. Remember, van Gogh only sold one painting during his lifetime. Not everybody is as lucky as Beuys, Liechtenstein, Chagall etc. I know an Israeli artist who has resorted to producing the touristy art stuff in order to pay for his living and his art projects that are dear to him. That, or sleep with the right people.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-911885</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 05:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Just took the quiz and enjoyed it,  but some info you should know from an emerging i.e. struggling Judaic artist. I have been studying  painting under another artist for two years and paying out of pocket  and due to the current economy and finding my art budget shrinking into non -existence. 

Have tried unsuccessfully for weeks to find grant money to continue my studies in the Jewish community and have determined that there is no support system out there what-so-ever.

Just a guess, but that is probably why there are so few Judaic fine artists.  

Any advice would be appreciated.

thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just took the quiz and enjoyed it,  but some info you should know from an emerging i.e. struggling Judaic artist. I have been studying  painting under another artist for two years and paying out of pocket  and due to the current economy and finding my art budget shrinking into non -existence. </p>
<p>Have tried unsuccessfully for weeks to find grant money to continue my studies in the Jewish community and have determined that there is no support system out there what-so-ever.</p>
<p>Just a guess, but that is probably why there are so few Judaic fine artists.  </p>
<p>Any advice would be appreciated.</p>
<p>thanks</p>
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		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-911272</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 03:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-911272</guid>
		<description>Ramon, I have. Fact books I&#039;ve got (e.g. Monumenta Judaica) provide more examples of Jewish artisanship / craftship linked to liturgical objects. Occasionally medieval Jewish wedding rings (highly decorated often with depictions of buildings) go on sale on eBay, so, with the expropriation laws on the back of my mind, I can&#039;t help but wonder how many descendants of Nazi officials now dig those items out among the heirloom of their grandfathers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ramon, I have. Fact books I&#8217;ve got (e.g. Monumenta Judaica) provide more examples of Jewish artisanship / craftship linked to liturgical objects. Occasionally medieval Jewish wedding rings (highly decorated often with depictions of buildings) go on sale on eBay, so, with the expropriation laws on the back of my mind, I can&#8217;t help but wonder how many descendants of Nazi officials now dig those items out among the heirloom of their grandfathers.</p>
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		<title>By: ramon marcos</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-911141</link>
		<dc:creator>ramon marcos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 22:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-911141</guid>
		<description>froylein - have you read Noah Gordon&#039;s &quot;The Last Jew&quot;? I know his books do well in Germany. The beginning illustrates most of what you  write regarding craft, art and liturgical objects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>froylein &#8211; have you read Noah Gordon&#8217;s &#8220;The Last Jew&#8221;? I know his books do well in Germany. The beginning illustrates most of what you  write regarding craft, art and liturgical objects.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-911097</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 18:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-911097</guid>
		<description>Sex? What&#039;s that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sex? What&#8217;s that?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Morrissey</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-911093</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Morrissey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 17:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-911093</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m running a bit of a hug deficit myself these days.  My solution is to self-hug.  Not sure if the Torah is cool with that, but getting a good ol&#039; grip on myself in the corner of my living room really seems to do wonders.  And remember-- it doesn&#039;t have to be about sex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m running a bit of a hug deficit myself these days.  My solution is to self-hug.  Not sure if the Torah is cool with that, but getting a good ol&#8217; grip on myself in the corner of my living room really seems to do wonders.  And remember&#8211; it doesn&#8217;t have to be about sex.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-911082</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 16:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-911082</guid>
		<description>Tom, how does that earn me hugs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, how does that earn me hugs?</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Morrissey</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-911060</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Morrissey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 15:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-911060</guid>
		<description>Some of the best guys out there are bigtime projects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the best guys out there are bigtime projects.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-911059</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 15:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-911059</guid>
		<description>Anyhow, back to visual arts.

Ramon, you&#039;re right; there was a need for liturgical objects. Plus there probably was a demand for jewellery as a means of investment that could easily be taken along in case of an expulsion. (Seamen would turn their pay into gold earrings as a form of solid currency.) Later it supposedly just was more or less traditional. (A fifth- or sixth degree uncle of mine was considered the finest goldsmith and jeweller in Düsseldorf during the turn of the previous centuries and the times leading up to WW2. I&#039;ve still got a ring he made.) I suppose family pictures were taken as soon as photography was available (hardly ever were they particularly artistic though), but, like many personal documents, many got lost during WW2 / the Holocaust. The oldest photographies of members of my family that I know of (i.e. that are still in family possession) are from about the middle / second half of the 19th century. An anecdotal by-note, my great-grandmother grew up in a frum neighbourhood; her mother wanted her photograph taken. She wanted it taken with her hair open as she was known for her gorgeous curls, but the photographer insisted she should cover her head. In the end, they compromised on a bun. The photograph&#039;s still in my grandmother&#039;s bedroom; I should have a copy of it made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyhow, back to visual arts.</p>
<p>Ramon, you&#8217;re right; there was a need for liturgical objects. Plus there probably was a demand for jewellery as a means of investment that could easily be taken along in case of an expulsion. (Seamen would turn their pay into gold earrings as a form of solid currency.) Later it supposedly just was more or less traditional. (A fifth- or sixth degree uncle of mine was considered the finest goldsmith and jeweller in Düsseldorf during the turn of the previous centuries and the times leading up to WW2. I&#8217;ve still got a ring he made.) I suppose family pictures were taken as soon as photography was available (hardly ever were they particularly artistic though), but, like many personal documents, many got lost during WW2 / the Holocaust. The oldest photographies of members of my family that I know of (i.e. that are still in family possession) are from about the middle / second half of the 19th century. An anecdotal by-note, my great-grandmother grew up in a frum neighbourhood; her mother wanted her photograph taken. She wanted it taken with her hair open as she was known for her gorgeous curls, but the photographer insisted she should cover her head. In the end, they compromised on a bun. The photograph&#8217;s still in my grandmother&#8217;s bedroom; I should have a copy of it made.</p>
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		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-911034</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 13:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-911034</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not picky. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not picky. <img src='http://www.jewlicious.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Morrissey</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-910972</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Morrissey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 09:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-910972</guid>
		<description>Middle, I gotta admit I&#039;m no Lance .....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Middle, I gotta admit I&#8217;m no Lance &#8230;..</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-910911</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 06:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-910911</guid>
		<description>Somebody&#039;s flirting with me?

Bring it on; I&#039;ll take all the affection I can get!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somebody&#8217;s flirting with me?</p>
<p>Bring it on; I&#8217;ll take all the affection I can get!</p>
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		<title>By: themiddle</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-910878</link>
		<dc:creator>themiddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 05:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-910878</guid>
		<description>Ouch, are you flirting with the Froylein at my expense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ouch, are you flirting with the Froylein at my expense?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Morrissey</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-910811</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Morrissey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 01:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-910811</guid>
		<description>Goodman&#039;s clearly the greatest jazz clarinetist ever.  There haven&#039;t even been very many since he left the scene, which may be a measure of his success.  As for Armstrong-- he invented jazz, basically.

froylein, you should know by now that Middle can&#039;t handle the truth, which explains his reaction to your portrait.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goodman&#8217;s clearly the greatest jazz clarinetist ever.  There haven&#8217;t even been very many since he left the scene, which may be a measure of his success.  As for Armstrong&#8211; he invented jazz, basically.</p>
<p>froylein, you should know by now that Middle can&#8217;t handle the truth, which explains his reaction to your portrait.</p>
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		<title>By: ramon marcos</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-910800</link>
		<dc:creator>ramon marcos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 00:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-910800</guid>
		<description>froylein - great insight in framing the discussion - especially prior to the 18th century. The reason I was focusing on that time (and early 19th century) was that it wasn&#039;t until then that Rabbis were loosening up on the graven image thing and Jews started getting their paint on. So while they were maybe behind the grade, as Middle pointed out, it was still a hobby. Except, maybe, in England where Jews were more assimilated into mainstream society. (And blurred the line between your definitions of Jewish-themed art created by Jews and non-Jewish themed art created by Jews.)

I could&#039;ve summed that previous bloated comment above in a more succinct manner: In the shtetel, you always need a wedding band. Not so much a wedding photographer. 

Middle, you&#039;re right about Goodman vs. Armstrong. No contest. Shouldn&#039;t be one. Not a fair comparison. Maybe Goodman vs. Harry James. Funny thing, when I was growing up the only jazz fans I knew were Jewish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>froylein &#8211; great insight in framing the discussion &#8211; especially prior to the 18th century. The reason I was focusing on that time (and early 19th century) was that it wasn&#8217;t until then that Rabbis were loosening up on the graven image thing and Jews started getting their paint on. So while they were maybe behind the grade, as Middle pointed out, it was still a hobby. Except, maybe, in England where Jews were more assimilated into mainstream society. (And blurred the line between your definitions of Jewish-themed art created by Jews and non-Jewish themed art created by Jews.)</p>
<p>I could&#8217;ve summed that previous bloated comment above in a more succinct manner: In the shtetel, you always need a wedding band. Not so much a wedding photographer. </p>
<p>Middle, you&#8217;re right about Goodman vs. Armstrong. No contest. Shouldn&#8217;t be one. Not a fair comparison. Maybe Goodman vs. Harry James. Funny thing, when I was growing up the only jazz fans I knew were Jewish.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-910778</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-910778</guid>
		<description>Pfffffffft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pfffffffft.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: themiddle</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-910606</link>
		<dc:creator>themiddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-910606</guid>
		<description>By the way, a smiley and a wink follow that last comment. I&#039;m sure you&#039;re a fine painter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, a smiley and a wink follow that last comment. I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re a fine painter.</p>
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		<title>By: themiddle</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-910605</link>
		<dc:creator>themiddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-910605</guid>
		<description>It was terrible. Your portrait of me reflected Jewish culture&#039;s paucity when it comes to painting talent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was terrible. Your portrait of me reflected Jewish culture&#8217;s paucity when it comes to painting talent.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/04/judaica-art-quiz/#comment-910598</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=4501#comment-910598</guid>
		<description>Ooooh, gentlemen, the ties between jazz and klezmer are close, (indelicacy alert:) just that bad klezmorim these days receive more attention than they deserve. 

Back to the visual arts; we need to consider a few premises:
a) during the Middle Ages, the artwork that sold was mostly religious as in work-on-demand paid for by the Church or someone donating a piece of artwork to a church. 
b) since Jews were not permitted to join guilds, they couldn&#039;t be chisellers, hence sculptors (if you look at medieval sculptures, you&#039;ll notice that the artist is hardly ever known; artists - as in specialized skilled craftsmen - considered themselves a divine tool; an attitude that only changed with the Renaissance).
c) Jews (Ashkenazi as well as Sefardi and Yemenite) have produced some fine gold- and silversmiths (the world&#039;s biggest jeweller currently is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.abramo.de&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ch. Abramowicz&lt;/a&gt; from Stuttgart). It was not uncommon that reliquaries were crafted - and even designed - by Jews, but the Middle Ages aren&#039;t too well documented in that field. Reliquaries provided a solid income though, but their history is quite another story. With diamond cutting emerging as a Jewish trade, jewellery design and craftsmanship became a Jewishly dominated terrain.
d) Guggenheim

Maybe we should categorize what Jewish art can be:
1) Jewishly themed art produced by a Jew;
2) non-Jewishly themed art produced by a Jew;
3) Jewishly themed art produced by a non-Jew (which then would also include purposedly anti-Semite works);
4) anything painted on a matzah.

BTW, I painted a portrait of Middle - using only my middlefinger at that. He didn&#039;t like it. :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooooh, gentlemen, the ties between jazz and klezmer are close, (indelicacy alert:) just that bad klezmorim these days receive more attention than they deserve. </p>
<p>Back to the visual arts; we need to consider a few premises:<br />
a) during the Middle Ages, the artwork that sold was mostly religious as in work-on-demand paid for by the Church or someone donating a piece of artwork to a church.<br />
b) since Jews were not permitted to join guilds, they couldn&#8217;t be chisellers, hence sculptors (if you look at medieval sculptures, you&#8217;ll notice that the artist is hardly ever known; artists &#8211; as in specialized skilled craftsmen &#8211; considered themselves a divine tool; an attitude that only changed with the Renaissance).<br />
c) Jews (Ashkenazi as well as Sefardi and Yemenite) have produced some fine gold- and silversmiths (the world&#8217;s biggest jeweller currently is <a href="http://www.abramo.de" rel="nofollow">Ch. Abramowicz</a> from Stuttgart). It was not uncommon that reliquaries were crafted &#8211; and even designed &#8211; by Jews, but the Middle Ages aren&#8217;t too well documented in that field. Reliquaries provided a solid income though, but their history is quite another story. With diamond cutting emerging as a Jewish trade, jewellery design and craftsmanship became a Jewishly dominated terrain.<br />
d) Guggenheim</p>
<p>Maybe we should categorize what Jewish art can be:<br />
1) Jewishly themed art produced by a Jew;<br />
2) non-Jewishly themed art produced by a Jew;<br />
3) Jewishly themed art produced by a non-Jew (which then would also include purposedly anti-Semite works);<br />
4) anything painted on a matzah.</p>
<p>BTW, I painted a portrait of Middle &#8211; using only my middlefinger at that. He didn&#8217;t like it. <img src='http://www.jewlicious.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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