Comments on: A Noble Shabbat Shalom

By: Emotional discussions over returned soldiers’ bodies continues to reverberate « Shalom Hartman Institute

Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:38:46 +0000

[...] in a recent blog posting, the leading Gen X/Gen Y Jewish blog site Jewlicious weighed in with a touching item, and I am sure there are many [...]

By: Ehud Goldwasser Z”L - Eldad Regev Z”L « Revista STAM!

Ehud Goldwasser Z”L - Eldad Regev Z”L « Revista STAM! — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:08:04 +0000

[...] hermoso y recomendable el texto “A Noble Shabbat Shalom“, por [...]

By: Ben-David

Ben-David — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:22:44 +0000

yoni:
if Israel had any proof that these soldiers were killed while in custody of Hezbollah, I am sure heads would be rolling all the way to Beirut.
- – - – - – - – - – -

… hey yoni, ever hear of this guy called Ehud Olmert?

sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Regarding Jesse:

Rev. Jesse Jackson, acting as an independent envoy, along with the Red Cross and the UN, all confirmed that Israeli POW’s Regev and Goldwasser were alive.

Full story here (and elsewhere):
web.israelinsi...

By: yoni

yoni — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:37:10 +0000

I don’t remember Jackson meeting the soldiers, and if Israel had any proof that these soldiers were killed while in custody of Hezbollah, I am sure heads would be rolling all the way to Beirut.

By: themiddle

themiddle — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:27:45 +0000

When did he report this?

By: Ben-David

Ben-David — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:16:07 +0000

Middle – if one was certainly killed in the initial attack, that means Jesse Jackson lied when he reported meeting the soldiers…

By: themiddle

themiddle — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:36:26 +0000

An interesting and positive spin on the exchange in Ha’aretz.

haaretz.com/ha...

By: BrazilianJew

BrazilianJew — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 01:19:21 +0000

I agree with Yoni. I was angry and felt sick to my stomack the day the deal was made. However, as the days pass I start to feel more and more that it was the only way. Israeli soldiers and their families should feel that the government will do all it can to avoid situations like Ron Arad’s. Now, the focus must turn to Shalit.

By: yoni

yoni — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:22:43 +0000

I think the body of a soldier and the importance of closer for the families are much more important than strategery (ala George W).

Israel has the upper hand no matter what, this will only make Israel, and Israelis will stronger and more proud of who they are….. The enemy will always loose because they are valueless.

By: themiddle

themiddle — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 20:42:45 +0000

Ben David, newspapers carried the IDF’s assessment that at least one was killed and a good chance the other was also killed in the original Hizbullah attack. This wasn’t a secret or something the government held back. However, despite this, it was obvious that many people believed that at least one of the two was still alive and there wasn’t a conclusive assessment that both were definitely dead.

We agree it was a lousy deal and a stupid negotiation by Olmert, but this post is about the families.

By: themiddle

themiddle — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 20:33:38 +0000

Well, that’s kind of a good thing. If we could understand a hero’s welcome for a murderer of a 4 year old child, or a hero’s worship for the man who brought upon S. Lebanon the 2006 war with Israel, we’d probably require psychological help.

By: Nizo the Palestinian

Nizo the Palestinian — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:53:31 +0000

I’m embarrassed and disgusted by the celebrations in Lebanon.

Furthermore, I think Israel made an enormous mistake by allowing such a deal.

You guys really don’t understand the mentality of your neighbors.

By: Ben-David

Ben-David — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:45:38 +0000

Sorry – I don’t go for the use of emotion to sweep away real, strategic issues.

Yes the speeches were moving.

No this should not be the basis – or justification – for Israeli government policy.

Olmert and the generals are supposed to be grownups with a longer view and the maturity to tough out painful decisions.

I AM EVEN LESS inclined to let emotion rule the day as it emerges that Olmert and others knew that both soldiers were dead long ago, based on previously classified forensic analysis of their vehicle and recovered safety vests.

This entire episode would have been much less costly – both emotionally and politically – if it had been announced long ago that both men were very likely dead.

Right now I am feeling manipulated and abandoned – and I’m not the only Israeli who feels this way.

By: montana_urban_legend

montana_urban_legend — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:38:27 +0000

This was a very good post, Middle.

By: Tom Morrissey

Tom Morrissey — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:39:43 +0000

Moving post. But let’s be honest about the moral of the story. This trade had to be made because, at the end of the day, Israel has no choice but to negotiate even with non-state, terrorist actors committed to its destruction– to prevent civilian deaths (the Gaza truce with Hamas), to redeem its pledge to its soldiers (the Hezbollah trade) and, in the end, to settle its dispute with the Palestinians. That’s the rationale behind this deal– agree with it or not.

By: yoni

yoni — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:32:45 +0000

Wow, that video was incredibly moving. Its moments like these that separates Israel from their enemies, there was no calls for struggle, no calls for retaliation, only pride for the fallen and grief for our loss.

Many people were critical of the Olmert government for allowing such a trade to take place, and at times I felt the same. But after watching this, I believe that this was the only thing that Israel could have done. It illustrates the great distinction between Israel and their enemies, even Kuntar, may his sole anguish in eternal damnation, talked of his envy for his ‘enemy’ in there determination to bring back soldiers, even if it is only their bodies. Please remember what that meant to the families of Eldad and Udi, they can finally continue on with their lives. And please, remember the words of Miki, stand tall and be proud, all Jews both in Israel and throughout the world.

Shabbat Shalom

By: yoni

yoni — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:22:28 +0000

This was one of your best blog posts to date, TM, thank you.