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	<title>Comments on: Alarm bells should be ringing if you serve in the IDF or have a son who is serving</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/09/alarm-bells-should-be-ringing-if-you-serve-in-the-idf-or-have-a-son-who-is-serving/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/09/alarm-bells-should-be-ringing-if-you-serve-in-the-idf-or-have-a-son-who-is-serving/</link>
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		<title>By: J.Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/09/alarm-bells-should-be-ringing-if-you-serve-in-the-idf-or-have-a-son-who-is-serving/#comment-1034840</link>
		<dc:creator>J.Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=5143#comment-1034840</guid>
		<description>Dam typos&quot;Winograd&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dam typos&#8221;Winograd&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: J.Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/09/alarm-bells-should-be-ringing-if-you-serve-in-the-idf-or-have-a-son-who-is-serving/#comment-1034838</link>
		<dc:creator>J.Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=5143#comment-1034838</guid>
		<description>Link below for Einograd report

http://www.vaadatwino.org.il/pdf/%E3%E5%E7%20%F1%E5%F4%E9.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Link below for Einograd report</p>
<p><a href="http://www.vaadatwino.org.il/pdf/%E3%E5%E7%20%F1%E5%F4%E9.pdf" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.vaadatwino.org.il/pdf/%E3%E5%E7%20%F1%E5%F4%E9.pdf'>vaadatwino.org...</a></p>
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		<title>By: themiddle</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/09/alarm-bells-should-be-ringing-if-you-serve-in-the-idf-or-have-a-son-who-is-serving/#comment-1034601</link>
		<dc:creator>themiddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 07:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=5143#comment-1034601</guid>
		<description>No, Roddy, there were significant military failures. For example, a navy ship turning off its electronic protection leaving itself vulnerable to a rocket attack by a rocket in the Hizbullah arsenal about which Israel may not have had full intelligence. Reservists and non-reservists going hungry on the battlefield or going to the battlefield without equipment also counts as a failure. I could go on, but what&#039;s the point if you haven&#039;t read the Winograd reports?

The IDF needs to fix itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Roddy, there were significant military failures. For example, a navy ship turning off its electronic protection leaving itself vulnerable to a rocket attack by a rocket in the Hizbullah arsenal about which Israel may not have had full intelligence. Reservists and non-reservists going hungry on the battlefield or going to the battlefield without equipment also counts as a failure. I could go on, but what&#8217;s the point if you haven&#8217;t read the Winograd reports?</p>
<p>The IDF needs to fix itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Roddy Frankel</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/09/alarm-bells-should-be-ringing-if-you-serve-in-the-idf-or-have-a-son-who-is-serving/#comment-1034488</link>
		<dc:creator>Roddy Frankel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 05:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=5143#comment-1034488</guid>
		<description>The outcome of the war was disgraceful. The trading of terrorists for corpses was disgraceful. The forced evacuation of Gaza was disgraceful. Negotiating &quot;peace&quot; with the former financier of the Munich Massacre is disgraceful. All of these failures are not military, they are political. The solution lies, likewise, not in overhauling the Israeli military. It lies in overhauling the current Israeli government. Israeli soldiers should be commended, and not used as scapegoats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The outcome of the war was disgraceful. The trading of terrorists for corpses was disgraceful. The forced evacuation of Gaza was disgraceful. Negotiating &#8220;peace&#8221; with the former financier of the Munich Massacre is disgraceful. All of these failures are not military, they are political. The solution lies, likewise, not in overhauling the Israeli military. It lies in overhauling the current Israeli government. Israeli soldiers should be commended, and not used as scapegoats.</p>
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		<title>By: themiddle</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/09/alarm-bells-should-be-ringing-if-you-serve-in-the-idf-or-have-a-son-who-is-serving/#comment-1033601</link>
		<dc:creator>themiddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 10:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=5143#comment-1033601</guid>
		<description>Yes, Roddy. I hope to make it a problem that somebody addresses. Otherwise you keep getting more of the status quo and the status quo doesn&#039;t appear to be good enough. 

With respect to the analysis of the conclusion of the Second Lebanon War, you&#039;ll have to accept that we differ on the outcome. You don&#039;t have to take my word for it, just read the Winograd reports and the numerous editorials and articles by people who participated in the war. Prior to the war, Israel had soldiers near the border, no hostages, Samir Kuntar, a force that could enter Lebanon at will to fight, relatively good intimidating presence that served to prevent wars, and no opposing forces&#039; doctrines on how to beat Israel. 

After the war, you had the original dead soldiers in the Northern outpost, you had the dead hostages returned but in a humiliating exchange for the murderer Kuntar, you ended up with another 140 dead soldiers, another 40 dead civilians, no more intimidating presence because everybody perceived Israel&#039;s weakness in fighting, tactical and strategic capabilities, a foreign force blocking Israel&#039;s path should it need to re-enter Lebanon, a UN Security Council resolution that is willfully ignored by both sides but places Israel at a disadvantage because it is a state and Hizbullah is an organization, a new fighting doctrine against Israel that includes rocket barrages against civilian centers and fighting from sophisticated bunker systems, etc. etc.

In other words, it&#039;s hard to spin this as a victory. When you lose, you have to lick your wounds, debrief like crazy, figure out what went wrong and then do everything in your power to fix the problems. It is well within the power of the IDF to do this. If a former major general whose job it was to evaluate the army&#039;s failures stands up and says that two years after the fact the IDF still hasn&#039;t and isn&#039;t implementing the changes needed to improve the situation, then what can people do to get the army&#039;s attention? 

People protesting individually will get nowhere. You need a loud voice coming from those whose husbands and sons are or will be in harm&#039;s way. You can be sure that if a meaningful number protests this issue, the army will address it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Roddy. I hope to make it a problem that somebody addresses. Otherwise you keep getting more of the status quo and the status quo doesn&#8217;t appear to be good enough. </p>
<p>With respect to the analysis of the conclusion of the Second Lebanon War, you&#8217;ll have to accept that we differ on the outcome. You don&#8217;t have to take my word for it, just read the Winograd reports and the numerous editorials and articles by people who participated in the war. Prior to the war, Israel had soldiers near the border, no hostages, Samir Kuntar, a force that could enter Lebanon at will to fight, relatively good intimidating presence that served to prevent wars, and no opposing forces&#8217; doctrines on how to beat Israel. </p>
<p>After the war, you had the original dead soldiers in the Northern outpost, you had the dead hostages returned but in a humiliating exchange for the murderer Kuntar, you ended up with another 140 dead soldiers, another 40 dead civilians, no more intimidating presence because everybody perceived Israel&#8217;s weakness in fighting, tactical and strategic capabilities, a foreign force blocking Israel&#8217;s path should it need to re-enter Lebanon, a UN Security Council resolution that is willfully ignored by both sides but places Israel at a disadvantage because it is a state and Hizbullah is an organization, a new fighting doctrine against Israel that includes rocket barrages against civilian centers and fighting from sophisticated bunker systems, etc. etc.</p>
<p>In other words, it&#8217;s hard to spin this as a victory. When you lose, you have to lick your wounds, debrief like crazy, figure out what went wrong and then do everything in your power to fix the problems. It is well within the power of the IDF to do this. If a former major general whose job it was to evaluate the army&#8217;s failures stands up and says that two years after the fact the IDF still hasn&#8217;t and isn&#8217;t implementing the changes needed to improve the situation, then what can people do to get the army&#8217;s attention? </p>
<p>People protesting individually will get nowhere. You need a loud voice coming from those whose husbands and sons are or will be in harm&#8217;s way. You can be sure that if a meaningful number protests this issue, the army will address it.</p>
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		<title>By: Roddy Frankel</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/09/alarm-bells-should-be-ringing-if-you-serve-in-the-idf-or-have-a-son-who-is-serving/#comment-1033370</link>
		<dc:creator>Roddy Frankel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=5143#comment-1033370</guid>
		<description>TM, a big problem in the IDF is low morale among the soldiers. By discouraging soldiers from enlisting, you only serve to WORSEN morale. Furthermore, at the end of the recent Lebanon War, it was Hezbullah that begged for a cease fire, and our secretary of state Rice that insisted on Israel&#039;s withdrawal. The only failure was that Olmert called off the war too soon. In other words, Israel&#039;s failure was political, not military. The dovish Olmert was too weak to stand up to Bush/Rice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TM, a big problem in the IDF is low morale among the soldiers. By discouraging soldiers from enlisting, you only serve to WORSEN morale. Furthermore, at the end of the recent Lebanon War, it was Hezbullah that begged for a cease fire, and our secretary of state Rice that insisted on Israel&#8217;s withdrawal. The only failure was that Olmert called off the war too soon. In other words, Israel&#8217;s failure was political, not military. The dovish Olmert was too weak to stand up to Bush/Rice.</p>
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		<title>By: Shy Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/09/alarm-bells-should-be-ringing-if-you-serve-in-the-idf-or-have-a-son-who-is-serving/#comment-1032659</link>
		<dc:creator>Shy Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 09:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=5143#comment-1032659</guid>
		<description>TM, these have been our sentiments for years already, even from the times Mofaz and Ya&#039;alon were the COSs.

Our oldest boy is scheduled to enter the IDF next year and we are convinving him not to make himeslef cannon fodder for the irresponsible leadership the IDF is still under, both political and military.

If it weren&#039;t for the absurdity of the situation, we would leave our son to his own decisions.

Looking forward to the day when Israel remembers who it is and why we&#039;re here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TM, these have been our sentiments for years already, even from the times Mofaz and Ya&#8217;alon were the COSs.</p>
<p>Our oldest boy is scheduled to enter the IDF next year and we are convinving him not to make himeslef cannon fodder for the irresponsible leadership the IDF is still under, both political and military.</p>
<p>If it weren&#8217;t for the absurdity of the situation, we would leave our son to his own decisions.</p>
<p>Looking forward to the day when Israel remembers who it is and why we&#8217;re here.</p>
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		<title>By: J.Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/09/alarm-bells-should-be-ringing-if-you-serve-in-the-idf-or-have-a-son-who-is-serving/#comment-1032129</link>
		<dc:creator>J.Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=5143#comment-1032129</guid>
		<description>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKnmV6K194c</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKnmV6K194c" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKnmV6K194c'>youtube.com/wa...</a></p>
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		<title>By: themiddle</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/09/alarm-bells-should-be-ringing-if-you-serve-in-the-idf-or-have-a-son-who-is-serving/#comment-1031066</link>
		<dc:creator>themiddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=5143#comment-1031066</guid>
		<description>In fact, I&#039;ll add to those points. What the article points out rings all too true. There was something fishy before Lebanon Two - fishy enough that I, living in the US, was able to sense it and write about it. The war revealed numerous glaring flaws in the IDF&#039;s readiness and fighting capabilities. All of us who know Israelis or who have spent some time there are familiar with the &quot;yihyeh b&#039;seder&quot; approach and the unscientific manner that people manage to get promoted or to find jobs, often through social networking. To go from there to General Ivri-Sukenik&#039;s remarks that the IDF isn&#039;t doing enough to fix the problems isn&#039;t that much of a stretch. This isn&#039;t about being disloyal to Israel, it&#039;s exactly the opposite. You have to be critical and you have to be forceful about it in order to force governments and senior soldiers to take notice. And the time isn&#039;t in some post-mortem to a lost war. The time is now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In fact, I&#8217;ll add to those points. What the article points out rings all too true. There was something fishy before Lebanon Two &#8211; fishy enough that I, living in the US, was able to sense it and write about it. The war revealed numerous glaring flaws in the IDF&#8217;s readiness and fighting capabilities. All of us who know Israelis or who have spent some time there are familiar with the &#8220;yihyeh b&#8217;seder&#8221; approach and the unscientific manner that people manage to get promoted or to find jobs, often through social networking. To go from there to General Ivri-Sukenik&#8217;s remarks that the IDF isn&#8217;t doing enough to fix the problems isn&#8217;t that much of a stretch. This isn&#8217;t about being disloyal to Israel, it&#8217;s exactly the opposite. You have to be critical and you have to be forceful about it in order to force governments and senior soldiers to take notice. And the time isn&#8217;t in some post-mortem to a lost war. The time is now.</p>
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		<title>By: themiddle</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/09/alarm-bells-should-be-ringing-if-you-serve-in-the-idf-or-have-a-son-who-is-serving/#comment-1031059</link>
		<dc:creator>themiddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=5143#comment-1031059</guid>
		<description>David, you can&#039;t dismiss this article and its reporter. He&#039;s not one of their loony doves and this general could sit quietly without criticizing his former colleagues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, you can&#8217;t dismiss this article and its reporter. He&#8217;s not one of their loony doves and this general could sit quietly without criticizing his former colleagues.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/09/alarm-bells-should-be-ringing-if-you-serve-in-the-idf-or-have-a-son-who-is-serving/#comment-1031017</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=5143#comment-1031017</guid>
		<description>For moron jewish celebrities, check out &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jewlicious.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;jewssip&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For moron jewish celebrities, check out <a href="http://www.jewlicious.com" rel="nofollow">jewssip</a></p>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/09/alarm-bells-should-be-ringing-if-you-serve-in-the-idf-or-have-a-son-who-is-serving/#comment-1031004</link>
		<dc:creator>david</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=5143#comment-1031004</guid>
		<description>Article in Haaretz: Israel will ceases to exist soon (again, this time for real).  News at seven.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Article in Haaretz: Israel will ceases to exist soon (again, this time for real).  News at seven.</p>
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