I dunno Menachem. I can understand your anger and all, but dude – how else do you go about turning an enemy into something more benign? You have better ideas that don’t involve wholesale slaughter or the commission of war crimes? I’m all ears. In the meantime, the 7 truckloads of humanitarian aid represented a nice gesture.

The Kibbutz Movement sponsored a two-week vacation in Israel for orphan from Gaza. Hamas refused to let them leave.

jpost.com/serv...

Citing what they said were more than 300,000 people still without access to running water, sewage running in the streets and 200,000 people still without electricity for the 25th day, the groups said in a statement, “Israel itself brought the humanitarian systems in Gaza to the brink of collapse — and then gave them the final push. The tremendous number of injured — over 5,000 — requires substantial investment in rehabilitation. It is incumbent upon Israel to allow the movement of people and goods into and out of the Gaza Strip.”

Nineteen Israeli NGOs issued joint statements and petitioned the government together. I don’t think these are anti-Israel groups. But you’re welcome to characterize them however your worldview sees loyal dissent. Perhaps anti-Israel is indeed your only option.

even in famine struck north korea they had a few well stocked stores.

and LB did you live in gaza?, did you eat the rations the gazans ate?

did you live without electricity and water as the gazans did?

did you try to smuggle medicines for your sick father by going through a hot and cramped tunnel faering that it might collapse any moment?

did you try to go to the west bank by using idf check points?

the answer to all of the above questions is no, so how the hell do you know how much suffering constitutes a humanitarian crisis?

if israelis lived without orange juice for a few days, it would be a crisis for you guys.

but if gazans suffer anything, you say “oh its nothing, it not like its a concentration camp or anything”

that is no excuse for prolonging their suffering is it,
how the hell would you feel if i said the jews in the concentration camps received more nutrition than the african refugees in congo????

did you know that even today millions around the world
receive less food than what the jews received in the camps?

does that mean the jews didnt suffer??

ofcourse they suffered, they suffered very badly, the point i am trying to make is that you can judge or estimate what constitutes suffering

america today are going through a tough economic crisis and millions are losing their homes, but compared to the hungry people world wide, they still have a good life, so does that mean their suffering doesnt count because they havnt suffered the worst?

try sleeping on the ground in the winter near your bombed out house and try to live without your daily comforts and maybe you will understand what suffering is.

No, I don’t consider everyone who disagrees with me anti-Israel. Not at all. However, someone who cannot see Israel as doing anything right, someone who likes to only see black and never even gray, who takes at their word those who attack Israel, but anything from a pro-Israel stance is automatically suspect (propaganda corps??) – that person is anti-Israel.

P.S. Attacking someone by calling them “pro-Likud” or saying they are just using “Likud talking points” shows an utter lack of the most basic understanding of Israeli politics.

You must consider anyone anti-Israel who disagrees with you. I’ve worked for two Israeli organizations, my present of which does development work in Israel proper. I head up a pro-Israel advocacy group in NYC. By your standards, Tzipi Livni and Shimon Peres must be anti-Israel. C’mon, question my patriotism again. You’re proving to be Likud talking points.

By enough, you mean I have backed you into a corner. Somebody else please back up LB.

Last time – it’s not from my “war buddy” – it’s from me (actually having been involved in talking to the NGOs face-to-face, and not in the press, actually been involved in the coordination of the supplies that enter Gaza). I am not going to respond here anymore, I’ve had enough. By you people, I mean anti-Israel. People who cannot stand to see Israel defend itself. Cannot stand to see a Jewish state, because it might offend their friends with too much liberal guilt. Yes, that is exactly what you are. Deny it all you want. I couldn’t care less. But I’m not responding to this anymore.

No, no, the people I rely on for advice work for NGOs there like Gisha, the Legal Center for Freedom of Movement. Hardly my war buddy who knows nothing.

The NGOs THEMSELVES are the ones that keep saying “stop, there’s almost a humanitarian crisis,” but save for the latest operation in Gaza – they never actually called it that. It’s not my definition – it’s your beloved, oh-so-honest NGOs.

That picture of Lauren Booth in the store in Gaza is beyond telling – if the stores are well-stocked, then Israel must be doing something else wrong. I don’t know what it is, yet, but I’m sure someone will come up with something.

And oh, will you people please stop with the bullshit of “Gaza is the most densely populated place in the world”? Even Tel Aviv is more densely populated.

I would dearly love to believe what you say, LB, because I care for the well-being of my friends in Gaza. But the evidence — the news coming out of Gaza, the first-hand accounts of Israeli NGOs, not to mention Gaza NGOs, plus the folks I know — is to the contrary.

Just because I enjoy poking holes in your attempts to defend Israel’s harpooned credibility on these matters, do please explain what you see as “humanitarian crisis” because I think your criteria would have be a second Shoah. Of course, I imagine you consider the slow rocketing of Sderot of utmost crisis propotion, meanwhile the densest population beneath $2/day is Gaza doesn’t classify. Your dupliciousness is obvious.

You call bullshit simply because you don’t like what I said. Well, sorry again, but you’re just going to have live with that.

You’re not being very transparent here. Thus, I call your bullshit. You know nothing except IDF press releases.

Shame, I was hoping for reality.