- Why can’t there be a single state of jews + Arabs? Had this been considered earlier, there would be less of an issue of the Arab demographic swallowing up Israel. One of the most important reasons for the large number of Palestinians (besides the generally high birth rate in Arab countries) is that Palestinians are not allowed to be anything other than Palestinians in the Middle East, save maybe Jordan. All the Arab states will gladly keep their refugee status, resulting in 3rd generation “Palestinians” who have never set foot in Palestine.

- Why is it so important to have a state that is defined racially and religiously, and simultaneously try to have some semblance of secularism? If Israel was not a “Jewish” state, and more like a Nation based on better democratic principles than its Arab neighbors, maybe somethign like the US (which by the way is a far better democracy than Western Europe, don’t tell that to any Europeans, they will not believe it on principle). Nation state, especially one based on DNA is passe. Trust me, Israel and Palestine want what the rest of the developed world is slowly realizing is dissapearing: a definition of a “nation”. Reality is, Jews and Arabs have a lot more in common than the rest of the lot (including DNA). And most developed economies are in need of immigrants, yes, the people that will make you lose your cultural definition as a nation. Therefore, the only ones that will survive are ones that are considering more human principles (global) rather than local. Everyone else is fragmenting into subgroups. For instance, Israel is far more diverse (even if still very jewish) than it was even 40 years ago. Really, its difficult to have a nation where everyone’s wishes are met within a very specific framework, like religious/racial affiliation. Best example, look at India, Hindu nationalism failed quite miserably, not simply because there were others besides Hindus, but because Hindus themselves did not want that definition. Now, if there was such a thing as an Arab democracy, especially in the core Middle-East, one that wasn’t based on Race or religion, Arab states would also lose their demographic nature. What Israel and Arab states should worry about more is the inevitable and creepy invasion of others, namely Asians (East and South) and Latin Americans. What Asians and Latinos have realized is that the best way to carry out an invasion is not militarily.

If you consider demographics, perhaps it is important to have principles that are time-tested, and one of them is not race.

I also believe that Jewish survival (I’m not a Jew) was more ensured by the diasporic nature of the tribes than a single state. Having said that, I think its a little too late to argue about who has more right to the Jewish land. Both sides use arguments that are rather stupid, essential idea being: who was there first. Well, if things should really be based on that, there’s a whole lot of the world that needs reorganization.

I dont think anyone should actively try to change the demographics of a country/nation, and that it should happen naturally. People will move where their culture and survial is best ensured. If Arabs would want to move to Israel, it isnt simply to claim a holy land (that’s policy makers), a family at the end of the day thinks about certain important basics like food and shelter. Arab migration towards Israel will only be proof that the rest of the Arab world is a miserably failure.

Similarly, I think the best insurance for the survival of Jews in the Middle-East is democracy in the Middle East, if it were up to me, I’d start forcing Arab states to allow more foreign NGO’s who could start planting seeds of democracy. In fact, democracy is the best system for survival of any minority group, look at how successful US is, and look at who founded the US, people who were under persecution. And in the long run, you could have a Middle East that is far closer to historical truth, one that had mixed populations of different religions including Jews interdispersed contributing actively to the culture and times (a basic reading of Islamic history will tell anyone that Jews played some important roles, and vice versa). I would love to see a Middle East that is proud of its historical legacy, one that gave birth to quite many monotheistic faiths. And I am sad to see other countries in the Middle East getting stripped of its Jewish populations, especially because of the Arab-Israeli conflict. This is sadly a real loss for Jewish history as well, which extends far greater than the geographic location of Israel.

ok, i should stop rambling

(Non-Jew, Non-Arab, Pantheist)

Bless you holy child.
May you merit to see the true and holy light in your lifetime.

Galit

Capitulation to leftist liberal and extremist Islamic terror brings us nothing but death.

and “Knowledge of American and Middle Eastern politics desirable.” – only desirable?

The timing of this story is extremely strange. If it stems from the Israeli administration, then it’s a defiant and petulant challenge to Obama. If it originates with another source, then it’s either meant to back Netanyahu into a corner or to embarrass him and force his hand with Obama.

“David Elhayani, head of the Jordan Valley regional council that oversees Maskiot, confirmed to Reuters he had issued the tender last week for contractors to launch infrastructure work.

”

It could be some settlers wanted to force him to be true to what he’s been saying in opposition all these years.

haaretz.com/ha...
Last update – 14:41 18/05/2009

Israel begins new settlement, despite U.S. opposition

By Haaretz Service

Tags: West Bank Settlements

Israel has has moved ahead with a plan to construct a new settlement in the northern West Bank for the first time in 26 years, pursuing a project the United States has already condemned as an obstacle to peace efforts.

The move comes on the eve of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s first meeting with U.S. President Barack Obama, despite Western calls for Israel to halt its settlement activity.

Tenders have been issued for 20 housing units in the new Maskiot settlement and contractors have arrived on site to begin foundational work.

The initiative began three years ago, under the auspices of then-defense minister Amir Peretz, who promised to transform a former army outpost into a permanent settlement for evacuees from the Gaza Strip. The move was then frozen due to American insistence.

That’s not about Auschwitz borders.

Auschwitz borders do not matter to someone living so far away.

Go ahead hide behind the apron of Mr Oren,I don’t care.
You are urging Israel to risk the lives of its citizens because you trust Mr. Oren. I on the other hand have no reason to place my life in your hands. Any country in the world that is only 10 miles wide as you and the brilliant Mr. Oren recomend is in mortal danger.

You are being disingenuous to your readers when you say that the number of draft evaders is growing. The REAL relevant number is the number of kids who volunteer for combat units and special forces. The army is having trouble placing these kids in their desired units for lack of space. Leftists such as yourself exist in every society, the rest of us must bite our lips and try to survive the damage that you subject us to.

I can borrow from your brilliant logic and now claim that because of the huge number of volunteers in the elite units, Israel should increase the number of pioneers living in the liberated territories.

While I pray for you and hope that you will survive your infection of left wing poison, I will never trust you to decide anything regarding my personal and or security.

This post is about removing the settlements east of the Fence and removing that population, save for those who wish to live under Palestinians rule, west of the Fence. Among other reasons, I mention public opinion. The US is the newest battleground in that fight and I believe the Palestinians have a good chance at winning US public opinion. The settlements are hard to defend against the contrast of the constant depiction of Palestinian suffering (real and pretend) under a military regime. In fact, even the process of fighting over the settlements hurts Israel because it undermines support it would otherwise get.

As Victor points out, by the way, polls prove little unless they are taken in large batches over lengthy periods. Right now everybody is still in the “Gaza war crimes” frame of mind. Over time information that disputes this perception will come out and change the public response. The bigger problem is that the settlements are perceived as the obstacle to peace.

And Xisnotx, you haven’t responded to this yet:

The deals they have offered at Camp David, at Taba and apparently in the last months of the Olmert administration, where the Palestinians were offered 100% of Gaza and 97-98% of Judea and Samaria with additional land inside Israel on a 1:1 exchange ratio were quite generous and well within the requirements of 242. Of course, the Palestinians refused. Again. And blamed Israel for inflexibility.
I’m still trying to check the source, but I actually read in a JPost op-ed that Erakat admitted to these latest offers and acknowledged that they were rejected because the Palestinians refused to accept any language that included the Temple Mount as part of Jewish history.
So why bother? To impress Obama? The Israelis are better off moving their settlers west of the Fence, keeping the IDF inside the West Bank as long as needed or outside but with an aggressive targeted killing and response-to-attacks protocol in place. Maybe another generation in refugee camps will pass but at least Israel will grow and thrive in the meantime. It really is up to the Palestinians. Maybe it’s also up to their supporters, Xisnotx, to help them understand that they need to compromise?

At what point do YOU say, “Wait, maybe the Palestinians aren’t seeking peace or another state?” And at what point do YOU say, “Wait, why do I support a people that seek to discredit my religious, cultural and historical connection to this land in order to further their own goals?”

The poll also demonstrates that a reasoned campaign to educate the public on the absolute necessity of Jewish settlement of Judea and Samaria, particularly that which is focused on Jewish claims to the land, is likely to be productive in influencing public opinion.

The one thing we absolutely need to STOP doing is teaching goyem that Israel was created because of the Holocaust!

Growing Majority of Americans Oppose Israel Building Settlements
worldpublicopi...=

But the demographics, you say? For all you demographic warriors, instead of whining, find a guy/girl to marry and let’s get busy under the covers. It seems to work for the Arabs, doesn’t it.

Nor will any other kind of withdrawal that can be carried out today.