Adopted sister sounds cool. I don’t have any siblings now anyway.

If you don’t want Muslims/Christians to have any say over Jewish issues, the answer would be to live in Israel, a state founded primarily for Jewish interests. As a Jew living in America, your interests will always be marginalized, and I don’t see why a Muslim is any worse than a Christian marginalizing them.

Also, you say that like being fair and open-minded is a bad thing. You can be practical and fair. Keep Jewish interests at heart, but don’t hate other people because of it.

I honestly believe that its more of a Jewish need to always feel righteous, fair, and open-minded than to use common sense.

On the other hand, how you could exclude a person’s religious connections and upbringing from their current worldview is beyond me.

Vicki, will you be my adopted sister? Because I’m already finding the urge to disagree with everything you say and love you at the same time.

I’d like to keep Froylein in more of an aunt role anyway. If she’s cool with that?

I would say the majority of Russian Jews did not come in 79 and the early 80s…only a couple thousand were let through. The floodgates opened in 1991, which is when the majority immigrated to both Israel and America.

I agree with you that he is pretty much undermining the economy with big government. I don’t really believe in peace, love, and puppies, or that Obama or McCain would have fulfilled the majority of their campaign promises. However, I don’t understand why we should fear his Muslim roots.

As Kari said, I’m more concerned about the fact that he is pro-choice due to his religious beliefs as a Christian.

Apparently, your Russian Jewish community has different views than the one I am familiar with in Detroit. Since most of us came in 79 and early 80′s waves, we were escaping communism and not parastroyka. Of course we weren’t too thrilled about his Muslim roots, which are undeniable, the bigger concern was how he would destroy this country both economically and with his Utopian worldview. As far as his religion is concerned, he’s obviously a believer of self empowerment and self preservation more than any g-d. In fact, his 20 years in an anti-Semitic and racist church without making a peep, in order to build his African American street cred are one example, while the fact that this deeply spiritual man has not found a new church since moving to DC and avoiding National Prayer Day are more proof that he is only concerned about politics than spiritual enlightenment.

It’s funny though, the double standards that have been applied to Bush and Obama vis a vis religious observation.

Lastly, call me ethnocentric, narrow minded, or bigoted, but I don’t understand how any Jew could in their right mind not take into account a politicians’ religion when voting for them, especially if they were Muslim. Sure, when I was a bleeding heart liberal in my twenties who believed in peace, love, and puppies, I’d go for that. But I must have also believed what a politician would have told me back then too. Boy am I glad to have grown up.

In any case, I’d agree with you that his religion shouldn’t matter if it doesn’t influence his policies… But it does. He bills himself as a religious Christian and he clearly recognizes that at least enough Christians voted for him to get him into office.

I view the near-constant pandering to Christian groups in the US political system as a fundamental problem with the country.

In short, if we Jews are going to build a nation-state we should build a nation-state–a Jewish state. (Isn’t that what most view Zionism as being?) If we just want to build a state where we will be free from persecution (perhaps a broader approach to Zionism) then we can take anyone… But I’ve always believed the general idea behind Zionism is the first goal.

Some things that would improve Israel’s economy (e.g. #4) are not politically or socially viable. That doesn’t mean they aren’t equally valid answers to the question.

@Ben-David: Been there, done that? Where is this Palestinian state?

Egypt, Pakistan, the UAE, Saudi Arabia and Iran all have larger economies than Israel does. Even the Arab countries who have paltry GDPs compared to Israel would benefit from free (or more free) trade with Israel, just as Israel would benefit from them. (See: Rising quality of life in poorer countries that have relatively free trade with the US and Europe. See: Poorer European countries getting stronger due to the Eurozone free trade area.)

The Arab world is viewed as the new frontier for businesses as the increasing trend of globalization manifests and fresh prospects in East Asia dry up. Israel would benefit from this just as well were it to improve the relations it has with its close and not-so-close neighbors. But that requires giving the Palestinians a state.

Years ago, the Arabs’ collective economy was oil. Now…That’s not quite so true. Economically, the Arab world is changing, as is the rest of the world. Your opinion on the subject seems to be grounded in an understanding of the broader Arab economy that stopped being true several years ago.

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It’s difficult to understand just how much Israel’s economy – and economic sophistication – dwarfs anything going on in Jordan, Lebanon, or Egypt.

Millions were poured into building industrial zones that would allow Israeli companies to benefit from Pali labor – while providing income for a Pali middle class.

It never materialized – largely due to terrorists targeting the industrial zones and killing workers there (“Zionist collaborators”).

Without the oil, the Arab world would be nothing. Really nothing. It’s still not much of a market relative to its population.

Kari – #4 is horrendous. Israel’s very raison d’etre is its Judaism. First we get all the Jews to move there, then even think about anyone else. But you said you don’t support it, but that that Israel should become a nation-state if that is how it views it? Can you expand on that? The Jewish people are the nation, aren’t they – and it is our state – isn’t that our “nation-state.” In any case, it seems you are against the modern version of the nation-state, what would you promote in its stead?

Regarding #4: I would not support #4 myself, as I generally believe that if the tribe wants to get into the practice of nation-state-craft, it should at the very least keep the nation-state a nation-state… But it would encourage economic growth, which is why I said it.

@Kari Good points. Wondering about #3-how would that boost economic growth? (not against it, just wondering.) Also, #4 would undermine the nature of Israel as a Jewish state. #6 and #7 would increase GDP 10x.

Stupid typo.

I’m asking again, if Carter and Obama dislike Israel and Israeli policies so much, then why do they continue to give billions of dollars to the Israeli government?

Because, as far as I know, the President does not control the budget – he has a lot of influence, of course – but the budget is a congressional issue. Lobbying (for any interest) is something that carries a lot more sway over Congress than it does over the President. I don’t want to turn this into a debate over AIPAC, but they do have a lot of influence over the people who actually vote on the budget…

It’s not that I don’t think my parents are “cool”, in fact, I don’t know anyone’s parents who dress up like Young Pioneers for Halloween. It’s just that oftentimes in the Russian Jewish community, there is a very strict sense of one-sidedness. “All Muslims are terrorists. Obama will do nothing but bad. Israel is always right” that is frustrating for me, something I strive to convey here with (lame) humor. I love Israel a LOT. I miss it so much sometimes it hurts. But it’s not without its flaws. And the American policy towards Israel is not completely just out of goodwill and solidarity; America gives money as long as it is convenient for Israel to be its lapdog (something that is very painful for me) and no administration, to my knowledge, has reduced funding to Israel so far.

I agree that Obama is doing great damage to the financial system, but what about Bush? He didn’t do anything to circumvent it, either. Both parties have failed as fiscal conservatives, even the party that is purportedly fiscally conservative.

I’m asking again, if Carter and Obama dislike Israel and Israeli policies so much, then why do they continue to give billions of dollars to the Israeli government? The rhetoric was definitively anti-Israel at some point, but the billions of dollars in both military and economic spending never stopped coming in, and it’s slated to continue looking forward.

Anyway, this has stretched into another post, so it looks like it’s time for me to sheket this time around.