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	<title>Comments on: But he Sounds So Reasonable now&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/but-he-sounds-so-reasonable-now/#comment-1322056</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=8879#comment-1322056</guid>
		<description>There is no mass immigration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no mass immigration.</p>
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		<title>By: DK</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/but-he-sounds-so-reasonable-now/#comment-1322052</link>
		<dc:creator>DK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 13:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It is not functional to have both a welfare state and mass immigration. Something has to give.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not functional to have both a welfare state and mass immigration. Something has to give.</p>
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		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/but-he-sounds-so-reasonable-now/#comment-1321664</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>And the welfare problem among immigrants from the former Soviet Union (who are eligible for welfare)? Unemployment is higher among those than among e.g. Turkish people (who are not eligible for welfare as long as they are Turkish citizens) in Germany.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the welfare problem among immigrants from the former Soviet Union (who are eligible for welfare)? Unemployment is higher among those than among e.g. Turkish people (who are not eligible for welfare as long as they are Turkish citizens) in Germany.</p>
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		<title>By: DK</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/but-he-sounds-so-reasonable-now/#comment-1321648</link>
		<dc:creator>DK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=8879#comment-1321648</guid>
		<description>froylein, it doesn&#039;t have to be all or even most for Islamicism to be a terrible problem. And then there is the reality that there is a terrible welfare problem among Muslim immigrants even from industrious and productive nations like Somalia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>froylein, it doesn&#8217;t have to be all or even most for Islamicism to be a terrible problem. And then there is the reality that there is a terrible welfare problem among Muslim immigrants even from industrious and productive nations like Somalia.</p>
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		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/but-he-sounds-so-reasonable-now/#comment-1321404</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 07:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=8879#comment-1321404</guid>
		<description>Ephraim, I just think the issue is more complex than to tie it to immigration; there are huge groups of non-radical first-generation immigrants, and there are third or fourth generation practically non-religious Muslims that turn to fanaticism at some point in their life etc. Haredim in Israel also try to or already do impose their beliefs onto non-Jews as they get implemented in common law, but that is also due to Israel&#039;s extraordinary status that makes it not a clear-cut secular state. 

I think it will be just as counterproductive to ignore Muslim radicalism as it will be to marginalize the non-radical majority of Muslims. If I condescend on all Muslims in a generalizing swoop, so to speak, odds are high I will drive people that not even are on the fringe into the arms of Islamists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ephraim, I just think the issue is more complex than to tie it to immigration; there are huge groups of non-radical first-generation immigrants, and there are third or fourth generation practically non-religious Muslims that turn to fanaticism at some point in their life etc. Haredim in Israel also try to or already do impose their beliefs onto non-Jews as they get implemented in common law, but that is also due to Israel&#8217;s extraordinary status that makes it not a clear-cut secular state. </p>
<p>I think it will be just as counterproductive to ignore Muslim radicalism as it will be to marginalize the non-radical majority of Muslims. If I condescend on all Muslims in a generalizing swoop, so to speak, odds are high I will drive people that not even are on the fringe into the arms of Islamists.</p>
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		<title>By: Ephraim</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/but-he-sounds-so-reasonable-now/#comment-1321386</link>
		<dc:creator>Ephraim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 06:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=8879#comment-1321386</guid>
		<description>Yes, Islam has been around in the Balkans for quite a few centuries. It is patently foreign to Western Europe, however, at least in the sense that Europeans have had to make any sort of concession to, or accommodation with, Islam as a religious force in their societies on any significant scale, at least heretofore. 

Yes, yes, we know: all &quot;fundamentalist&quot; religious people are fanatics, we get it. Some fanatics are worse than others, though. Islamist fanatics are bent on forcing non-Muslims to accommodate them with the aim of eventually imposing Islam and subjugating non-Muslims under its rule. I think the haredim are crazy, but I don&#039;t believe they want to rule over gentiles. You may believe their way of life is oppressive and barren, but I don&#039;t see them out trying to impose it on gentiles. On other Jews, yes, perhaps, but that&#039;s as far as it goes.

If Muslims in Europe were Muslims like the Christians in Europe are Christians, there wouldn&#039;t be any problem. However, Islam is by its nature a domineering, aggressive faith. 

Something will have to give at some point, and I think we&#039;re beginning to see it.

Absolutely not a desirable outcome, I agree. But this sort of situation always favors the fascists, and the Muslims do themselves no favors by allowing themsleves to be represented by people who live on the dole while preaching hatred of the society which supports them. Who would not be angry at this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Islam has been around in the Balkans for quite a few centuries. It is patently foreign to Western Europe, however, at least in the sense that Europeans have had to make any sort of concession to, or accommodation with, Islam as a religious force in their societies on any significant scale, at least heretofore. </p>
<p>Yes, yes, we know: all &#8220;fundamentalist&#8221; religious people are fanatics, we get it. Some fanatics are worse than others, though. Islamist fanatics are bent on forcing non-Muslims to accommodate them with the aim of eventually imposing Islam and subjugating non-Muslims under its rule. I think the haredim are crazy, but I don&#8217;t believe they want to rule over gentiles. You may believe their way of life is oppressive and barren, but I don&#8217;t see them out trying to impose it on gentiles. On other Jews, yes, perhaps, but that&#8217;s as far as it goes.</p>
<p>If Muslims in Europe were Muslims like the Christians in Europe are Christians, there wouldn&#8217;t be any problem. However, Islam is by its nature a domineering, aggressive faith. </p>
<p>Something will have to give at some point, and I think we&#8217;re beginning to see it.</p>
<p>Absolutely not a desirable outcome, I agree. But this sort of situation always favors the fascists, and the Muslims do themselves no favors by allowing themsleves to be represented by people who live on the dole while preaching hatred of the society which supports them. Who would not be angry at this?</p>
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		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/but-he-sounds-so-reasonable-now/#comment-1321381</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 06:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=8879#comment-1321381</guid>
		<description>Islam hasn&#039;t been foreign to Europe for quite a few centuries, and Islamist ideologies cannot only be found among recent immigrants, but also among others, including converts. The fanaticism with which converts appear to pursue what they understand to be the official religion is the same kind of fanaticism you&#039;ll find among any group of people that believe to have &quot;seen the light&quot;.
And as I stated above, the right-wing parties form one political block in the European Parliament now. Suppose political opportunism wins hands down over alleged / self-acclaimed affiliations and sympathies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Islam hasn&#8217;t been foreign to Europe for quite a few centuries, and Islamist ideologies cannot only be found among recent immigrants, but also among others, including converts. The fanaticism with which converts appear to pursue what they understand to be the official religion is the same kind of fanaticism you&#8217;ll find among any group of people that believe to have &#8220;seen the light&#8221;.<br />
And as I stated above, the right-wing parties form one political block in the European Parliament now. Suppose political opportunism wins hands down over alleged / self-acclaimed affiliations and sympathies.</p>
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		<title>By: Ephraim</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/but-he-sounds-so-reasonable-now/#comment-1321359</link>
		<dc:creator>Ephraim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 05:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=8879#comment-1321359</guid>
		<description>Amazing.

DK and I agree on something.

By allowing radical Islam to spread unchecked in the name of &quot;inclusion&quot; and &quot;multiculturalism&quot; and rolling over like dead dogs every time the Islamists shit all over the counties who have taken them in (even while living off the money the stupid &lt;i&gt;dhimmis&lt;/i&gt; pay in taxes), the European politicians have ceded the field to the worst kind of nativist fascists, who appear to be the only ones who are willing to fight to protect Europe from the encroachment of sharia and all that it entails.

The politicians of Europe have demonstrably failed to protect Europe from a culture and an ideology that are alien to it and bent on domination. They have only themselves to blame if people turn to someone, &lt;i&gt;anyone&lt;/i&gt;, who is willing to stand up and say &quot;enough&quot;. 

If liberalism hasn&#039;t the stomach for the fight, there are always those who do.

It is a bad situation, and if things keep up like this, the Jews had better watch out and make sure the suitcases are packed.  

But I&#039;ve been expecting this for a while. It is not at all surprising. If the non-fascist politicians take a hint and grow a pair and start standing up the the Islamists, there is hope that the fascist right will not keep growing. But if they don&#039;t, it will, for sure.

This is just the beginning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing.</p>
<p>DK and I agree on something.</p>
<p>By allowing radical Islam to spread unchecked in the name of &#8220;inclusion&#8221; and &#8220;multiculturalism&#8221; and rolling over like dead dogs every time the Islamists shit all over the counties who have taken them in (even while living off the money the stupid <i>dhimmis</i> pay in taxes), the European politicians have ceded the field to the worst kind of nativist fascists, who appear to be the only ones who are willing to fight to protect Europe from the encroachment of sharia and all that it entails.</p>
<p>The politicians of Europe have demonstrably failed to protect Europe from a culture and an ideology that are alien to it and bent on domination. They have only themselves to blame if people turn to someone, <i>anyone</i>, who is willing to stand up and say &#8220;enough&#8221;. </p>
<p>If liberalism hasn&#8217;t the stomach for the fight, there are always those who do.</p>
<p>It is a bad situation, and if things keep up like this, the Jews had better watch out and make sure the suitcases are packed.  </p>
<p>But I&#8217;ve been expecting this for a while. It is not at all surprising. If the non-fascist politicians take a hint and grow a pair and start standing up the the Islamists, there is hope that the fascist right will not keep growing. But if they don&#8217;t, it will, for sure.</p>
<p>This is just the beginning.</p>
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		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/but-he-sounds-so-reasonable-now/#comment-1321101</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=8879#comment-1321101</guid>
		<description>Those carrotties...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those carrotties&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: DK</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/but-he-sounds-so-reasonable-now/#comment-1321073</link>
		<dc:creator>DK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=8879#comment-1321073</guid>
		<description>If mainstream politicians are willing to address the problems of mass immigration, which absolutely includes the problem of Islamicism growing in the west, voters will not need extremist parties to address their concerns.

Unfortunately, in the U.S., Jewish groups have taken the lead in punishing anyone who raises the issue of immigration in typically vociferous terms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If mainstream politicians are willing to address the problems of mass immigration, which absolutely includes the problem of Islamicism growing in the west, voters will not need extremist parties to address their concerns.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, in the U.S., Jewish groups have taken the lead in punishing anyone who raises the issue of immigration in typically vociferous terms.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua (not Josh)</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/but-he-sounds-so-reasonable-now/#comment-1320794</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua (not Josh)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=8879#comment-1320794</guid>
		<description>Well, I have seen a number of Jews latch on to Geert Wilders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I have seen a number of Jews latch on to Geert Wilders.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in London</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/but-he-sounds-so-reasonable-now/#comment-1320755</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in London</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=8879#comment-1320755</guid>
		<description>The election of two BNP members to the European Parliament is extremely worrying to all of us Jews here in England. Nearly a million voters out of the 15 million Brits who bothered to vote cast their ballots in favour of a Nazi party.

Myself and 55,000 others like me have already expressed our disgust by signing the Hope Not Hate petition entitled &#039;Not In My Name&#039;. Get in touch with your British friends, and if they haven&#039;t already, urge them to sign it.
http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/page/s/notinmyname</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The election of two BNP members to the European Parliament is extremely worrying to all of us Jews here in England. Nearly a million voters out of the 15 million Brits who bothered to vote cast their ballots in favour of a Nazi party.</p>
<p>Myself and 55,000 others like me have already expressed our disgust by signing the Hope Not Hate petition entitled &#8216;Not In My Name&#8217;. Get in touch with your British friends, and if they haven&#8217;t already, urge them to sign it.<br />
<a href="http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/page/s/notinmyname" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/page/s/notinmyname'>action.hopenot...</a></p>
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		<title>By: froylein</title>
		<link>http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/06/but-he-sounds-so-reasonable-now/#comment-1320744</link>
		<dc:creator>froylein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jewlicious.com/?p=8879#comment-1320744</guid>
		<description>Politicians have been dealing with radical Islam here, but they have underestimated the populist demagogues. Psychology, which I know Muffti loves, teaches us those people would be looking for a target for their hate anyway, Muslims or whatnot. In Eastern Europe, the main target of the right-wing extremists are Jews, Sinti and Roma. In the European Parliament, the right-wing parties form one political block; no questions asked. Jews should know better than to make their beds with those that only an instant ago and in an instant to come would rather see Jews digging their own graves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Politicians have been dealing with radical Islam here, but they have underestimated the populist demagogues. Psychology, which I know Muffti loves, teaches us those people would be looking for a target for their hate anyway, Muslims or whatnot. In Eastern Europe, the main target of the right-wing extremists are Jews, Sinti and Roma. In the European Parliament, the right-wing parties form one political block; no questions asked. Jews should know better than to make their beds with those that only an instant ago and in an instant to come would rather see Jews digging their own graves.</p>
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