The fact of the matter is that Jesus Christ was and still is the son of the Almighty G-d who is from everlasting to everlasting. He is the son of G-d, so that makes Him equal to G-d. And placed himself into a human embryo in order that He might willingly give His life to save not only just Jews but all of mankind. He willingly lived and died as Jew in order for salvation to be fulfilled and the original contract that was extended to Ha Satan to have dominion and authority over planet earth could be voided and nullified. To say that Jews can’t be Jews because they believe in Jesus is utterly absurd. Jesus was born to a Jewish woman, was judged over by the Jewish Sanhedrin and willingly gave his life to be unjustly put to death because He loved Jews. The Sanhedrin did not pass any edict excommunicating Jesus or say that He was no longer a Jew, only that they did not agree with His statements that He was the son of G-d. They hated Him because He told them to their faces that they were only Rabbis in title because they loved the public benefits of being thought to be noble when in fact they were vile and venom filled (case in point). Blood and water are beautiful parts of the faith but the greater part is Christ – and Him crucified.

There are so many holes and inconsistencies in your own words that I am not sure how to start responding to your clearly flawed reasoning? Where exactly did you do Rabbinical Studies. You are doing it a a disservice. I mean really?? I will address your main concern in this post and let the readers be the judge.

You wrote:

“Judaism has ALWAYS been about what people believe AND what people practice. Many of those so-called Messianic Jews are really NOT JEWS, not born Jewish.”

Don’t you see the inconsistencies in your own words. Using absolute terms such as “ALWAYS” wreaks of carelessness and only identifies how unlearned you are.” Firstly, you cannot argue that the Litmus test for Judaism is always about belief and practice and then follow with a sentence with separate sentence which suggests a different litmus test ie “being “born Jewish.”

Let’s not forget that Abraham was not Jewish, because he was born Hebrew. The unmerited favor given him was due to his faith and not his being born Jewish. Likewise, the Torah makes many allowances for those aren’t “born Jewish” whatever that means. Nothing in your inconsistent Limus tests suggests that Judaism is about, love, faith, community family. You really do Judaism a disservice.

I can go on and on with this, but I think my point is clear. Judaism is a faith, that is why one can be converted to Judaism even though they are not “born Jewish”, much like the so called “Christians” have done (but may not have realized).

Please at least be consistent with innuendos.

LB. That one line highlights a truth many are unaware of. The truth is, there is no such thing as Christianity. Jesus was never considered to be Christian. That was a pejorative reserved for Jewish people who believed him to be the Messiah. This phrase was used decades after his death and resurrection. Therefore, he could have never be “Christian,” neither were the early followers. They were all observant Jews who simply thought the promise of Messiah was fulfilled. What’s so wrong with that?

Which ties into your sentence and Observer’s point. So called “Christians” are actually following a largely Jewish faith. So if anyone has been converted, it was them. They just don’t know it, because they as Observer eloquently pointed out, “hijacked the life’s work of a Jewish man, pushed out his Jewish followers, polluted him and his ideals beyond recognition, and created a new religion out of him.”

Your response is compelling and accurate. I especially like your penultimate paragraph which captures the truth and identifies the flaws in an age old argument. I hope by me quoting your words others will see the truth in your words. We are all one!!!!!

” … Non-Jews hijacked the life’s work of a Jewish man, pushed out his Jewish followers, polluted him and his ideals beyond recognition, and created a new religion out of him. It still doesn’t make him or the Jews who follow him arbiters or members of 21st century Christianity.”

Just apropos, if you had the gift of love, you wouldn’t have used the “oy”.

I can assure you that instead of being “spoon fed” someones version of Qur’an you read the original writing in the classical Arabic which you obviously have not done.

In the Shia and Sunni beliefs the Mahdi مهدي, is their redeemer and no place in Qur’an is it written Jesus is Messiah. Actually, Jesus to them is “the healer” and a lesser prophet. In the Masjid Qubbat As-Sakhrah,مسجد قبة الصخرة, Allahumma salli ala rasulika wa’abdika ‘Isa bin Maryam – “In the name of the One God (Allah) Pray for your Prophet and Servant Jesus son of Mary”,من جانب اسم إله واحد (الله) باداء الصلاة لما بذلتموه النبي, خادم السيد المسيح ابن مريم, which is not very flattering when you read it. It’s basically saying that Jesus is the servent of the Prophet and the son of Mary while indicating Jesus was born without a legitimate father. This was inscribed inside the dome at a time when Muslims were trying to convert Christians in the city by force.

This contradicts Sura 3:45-47 which was written down around c.650 CE, the word Qur’an literally means “recitation”. Who knows what was added or taken away, only Muslim’s would know this. Maybe, the same who engraved the words about Jesus hadn’t read the Sura or maybe they did, who knows. The point is, Yeshua a Jewish Rabbi of blessed memory should be respected.

With that said, Muslim’s want to kill Jews, Christians and anyone else in their field of vision. This I know, it’s not about anything other than “hadith” (sayings) in the various Sura (chapters). Yes, they adopted Jewish Prophets and yet are commanded to “kill” the people of the Book who are descendants of the prophets. There is a vast difference between real Islam (eastern) and the watered down version of the (west).

If Muslims who are Jihadist, don’t fulfill the “hadith’s” then their religion is a lie, and they can’t let that happen now can they?

Never underestimate their desire to adhere to Qur’an.

I mean you know disrespect at all, but when we come together as a people, hatred and anger always muddies the debate to a point of verbal warfare. I see your points that you are making, but please understand the Rabbi is a Rabbi, he should be respected, even if I don’t agree with a Rabbi, I still love him or her and bless them. It’s just a Jewish way and I like it.

In the beginning, (Rabbi correct me if I’m wrong) but H’Shem is all about “free will”. He is the ultimate Judge and will in the end sort all things out. I trust fully in the G-d of Israel to accomplish this. If people would learn to trust in G-d they way they do the brakes on their cars, we would all be a lot better off. Messianic Jews, I love you too. I love all Jews. I am an old Jew who is tired, my soul is tired yet, I have the strength and gift of love.

Muslim’s, I love you as well. I have rescued your children even though you shot me for it, I love you. A Muslim killed my son, he was five years old in 1984 and yet, I love my enemies children. Stop Kvetching so much.
The gift of G-d is love. Isn’t that was Yeshua and all the other great Jews were about?

Oy.

My your heart live forever, I understand you are not committing L’shon Ha’ra לשון הרע
I would however say that I know many Chassidim who believe Yeshua is Mohshiach, and I consider them just as Jewish as I am. I know Jews (term used loosely) from for the former Soviet Union who don’t even believe in H’Shem. To me, they are as the goy but none the less are Hebrews. I love all Jews including those who believe in Yeshua.

Many of the Chassidim believe Yeshua is coming again and even some thought Gadol Rebbe Mordecai David Kahane is Moshiach. I love them as well. Even Yeshua, a Jew who kept Torah I love him too. Correct me Rabbi, but I understand a Jew as one who is a Jew inside his or her heart and keeps the faith (trust) in G-d as Aveinu Av’raham. Even in war, when I have done things which are considered “shiga” and war is full of שָׁגָה. Yet H’Shem watched over me his Meshugener Chaiya.

Non Jews can’t understand the things we know and I understand your love for our people guides you. I hope you remain faithful as I know you will, and keep the love that I know you have for Am Yisrael.

Shalom Rabbi,

Yonatan

That sounds awesome.

Does Muffti know about this?

As for other Chasidishe views on Chabad, two words say it all: bad yichus.

Curiously enough a Chasidishe Rabbi doesnt represent an entire sect of Chassidus. Lets take Ger for example. Arguably the largest Chassidic sect in the world with hundreds of thousands of chassidim. They have a very strong relationship with Chabad. Same with Skver, and Klausenburg, Nikolsburg, Aleksander to name a few.

Although I disagree with Chabads opinion on their Rebbe being Moshiach there is nothing halachically wrong with it. It just isnt menchlich. Chabad does more to spread Torah then a lot of other groups and even HaRav Weinberg ZT”L of AISH received a bracha from the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT”L to do kiruv work.

While you try to reveal darkness in the world they try to reveal light.

Goodluck with those volumes.

And your insistence on calling me a name that I don’t wish to be called speaks volumes about you.

Even the Satmar Rebbe Shlit’a spends 3 weeks in california and davens at a chabad shul daily and Satmar at one point was one of the biggest opponents of Chabad.

I know you dont consider me educated in any respect but I have traveled the world interacting with many different Chassidic Rebbes and Chassidim and none of them take issue with Chabad to the degree that the ones listed above do.

Skver even has a relationship with Chabad that Moshiach is coming from either of their sects so they tend to marry their sons and daughters.

Your mind is made up and I have no need to convince you but in my experience your views are inaccurate in regards to Chassidus and Chassidim.

Froy.

Im sure he wouldnt be happy that a new religion was created in his name that would murder millions of innocent Jews not to mention that Catholism which is a huge sect of Christianity is total avoda zaharah.

There are certain people that arent forgiven because their sin causes a chain reaction that causes the masses to sin for generations. Ill tell you the story I heard about King Menasseh when I see you today

And yeah. I have no idea how we’re getting all these comments from ancient posts. I guess we have Mr. Google to thank for that.

Jews for Jesus. Kaballah Center. We have come a loooooong way. For 2,000 years the Goyim persecuted us, raped us, murdered us, and exiled us from their lands.

Now in 2010 the Goyim want to be like us so bad, want to learn our esoteric teachings without all the baggage. Actually following the Torah properly is extremely difficult and takes day in day out for years. Why would they want to make such a commitment.

I doubt there is a single Jew for Jesus member that is versed in all of Tanach, Midrashim, and Gemara, Halacha, Achronim, Rishonism, Etc because if they were they would realize that Jesus is sitting in Gehenom right now being boiled alive in his out feces day in and day out since he died on that stupid cross.

Froy is a work of art and its so interesting how she comes to her conclusions and tries to Parallel Chabad with Christianity. Then again she compares Chassidus at large to Christianity so it is interesting she uses a Chasid as a source.